Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-28-2009, 10:28 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Can i do this? tapping an existing outlet...


Hello all,


I am installing a woodstove. As part ot the process, i have removed an existing (antique wood) wall treatment, which i will be replacing with 2 layers of plastered fireblock drywall. I will be installing a small decorative mantel after the wall is closed in, and while i have it open (and before re-insulating) i would like to add a few outlets (on a switch) at the mantel level, so i can plug in some low-wattage candle or lantern-type lights.

To do this, can i tap into this existing outlet ?
(Original metal box has been replaced with adjustable-depth box to accomodate the 1.25" of drywall)






The end result would be something like this:

(Components are just tacked into place for illustrative purposes.)






Beyond this outlet, (first stop from breaker) the circuit feeds one additional outlet, and then 2 exterior lights which use ordinary bulbs (100 watt max), so i don't think there is a load issue. The existing outlet might however be used to power an optional blower on the wood stove, if it turns out i need it. I am not sure if said blower runs continuously or not, for the purposes of this project, let's say it will. There are no breaker slots left in the subpanel to allow for a new circuit. I am in PA, if it makes any difference.


I appreciate any info...


Thanks in advance.



















Edit: Forgot to mention, the other wire-line visible in the pics feeds an electric baseboard heater, on separate circuit...in case the question arises.


Last edited by nuf2BeDangerous; 10-28-2009 at 10:31 PM.
nuf2BeDangerous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2009, 12:37 AM   #2
Licensed Electrician
 
Magnettica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Rahway, NJ
Posts: 168
Rewards Points: 150
Send a message via Yahoo to Magnettica
Default

Can i do this? tapping an existing outlet...


What you need more than anything else is to secure those cables within 8" of any box and no more than 54" between supports.

__________________
Union County, NJ, Licensed Electrician
Classic Electric, LLC, Rahway, New Jersey
Magnettica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2009, 02:04 AM   #3
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Can i do this? tapping an existing outlet...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnettica View Post
What you need more than anything else is to secure those cables within 8" of any box and no more than 54" between supports.
Thanks for replying Magnettica. Yeah, i suspected the wiring as it exists was improperly secured. I think my father did the wiring, about 45 years ago...he was not an electrician, heh. I'll wire-staple all the cables once i am sure of the wiring routing (fortunately there is enough play in the wires to do so).

"54 inches between supports"...do you mean the spans between the cat blocks? if so, they are 24" centers (roughly..seems they were "eyeballed").

As for the overall plan, is it a legit idea? As you can tell, i know squat about codes/approved techniques, and the NEC is pretty involved for someone like me...
nuf2BeDangerous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2009, 09:07 AM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South of Boston, MA
Posts: 17,248
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Can i do this? tapping an existing outlet...


My concern would be having that outlet behind the wood stove
As long as required clearances are met it should be OK
But I know how hot my wood stove used to get at the old house

Are you keeping the wall drywall?
I used brick at my last house to create a large heat sink
This house I will be using stone

I don't see any specific problem with the setup
I have 2 outlets on my mantel - but live all the time

Is that the stove exhaust or fresh air intake?
Scuba_Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2009, 09:28 AM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 6,970
Rewards Points: 2,036
Default

Can i do this? tapping an existing outlet...


The hole in the 2x4 counts as a support so you don't always have to stretch the cable over to another 2x4 to staple it in place. If the last hole is more than 8 inches from the box (12 inches if the box opening has a clamp or finger to hold the cable) then you would need to curve the wire gently to a suitable spot on the 2x4 and staple it there.

The box with 3 cables going into it needs to be extra large, like 21 cubic inches, if you have a 20 amp. circuit with 12 gauge wires, or if there are wire clamps at the box openings protruding into the box.

Nit picking: Since you have the wall open, I would rerun the wire at the lower left to go through alternate stud cavities not shared by the stove pipe. Two cables can share the same hole if they fit loosely.
__________________
Forget super sized fries. The Washington Redskins could promote healthy eating with First Lady Obama by choosing a (red skinned) turnip for a mascot.

Last edited by AllanJ; 10-29-2009 at 09:41 AM.
AllanJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2009, 09:40 AM   #6
Member
 
joed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Welland, Ontario
Posts: 8,139
Rewards Points: 3,072
Blog Entries: 4
Default

Can i do this? tapping an existing outlet...


I would make one change. Instead of going across and down I would go down from the switch and then across. Going to be difficult getting into the top of that box when coming from above unless you remove the 2x4 cross brace or lower the box.
__________________
Do not PM with questions that can be asked in a forum. I will not respond.
joed is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2009, 04:21 PM   #7
Newbie
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Can i do this? tapping an existing outlet...


Thanks everyone for your replies.






Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave View Post
My concern would be having that outlet behind the wood stove
As long as required clearances are met it should be OK
But I know how hot my wood stove used to get at the old house

Are you keeping the wall drywall?
I used brick at my last house to create a large heat sink
This house I will be using stone

I don't see any specific problem with the setup
I have 2 outlets on my mantel - but live all the time

Is that the stove exhaust or fresh air intake?

Yes, the wall will be fireblock drywall, plastered.

I actually had to look at a lotttt of stoves to find one with close enough clearances for this installation...it's a very narrow room, and most of them would have stuck oddly into the middle of the room. This one (Hearthstone brand, model is a Shelburne) only needs 6" from the corner of the stove to a flammable wall (with the optional heat shield, which i also bought). Technically, this means i could actually have kept the incredibly dry antique wood on the walls, by manufacturers specs. However, i realllly was not comfortable with that , which is why i am doing the fireblock wall instead.

The vent is for a cold air intake, yep...this is an old house, and the combustion drawing air from inside the house would likely cause some serious drafting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanJ View Post
The hole in the 2x4 counts as a support so you don't always have to stretch the cable over to another 2x4 to staple it in place. If the last hole is more than 8 inches from the box (12 inches if the box opening has a clamp or finger to hold the cable) then you would need to curve the wire gently to a suitable spot on the 2x4 and staple it there.

The box with 3 cables going into it needs to be extra large, like 21 cubic inches, if you have a 20 amp. circuit with 12 gauge wires, or if there are wire clamps at the box openings protruding into the box.

Nit picking: Since you have the wall open, I would rerun the wire at the lower left to go through alternate stud cavities not shared by the stove pipe. Two cables can share the same hole if they fit loosely.
Hmm..dangit. I come up with 19.5 cubic inches, with the box pictured. I suppose i could use a double box, then?

As for moving that other wire, i would either have to cut it out of the studs, or disassemble the baseboard heater to disconnect it and pull it back through the holes...i wonder if it'd be worth it, since the vent pipe is only a cold-air intake?



Quote:
Originally Posted by joed View Post
I would make one change. Instead of going across and down I would go down from the switch and then across. Going to be difficult getting into the top of that box when coming from above unless you remove the 2x4 cross brace or lower the box.

Ahh, good point. Thanks, i'll do that.
nuf2BeDangerous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2009, 06:10 PM   #8
Master Electrician
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 511
Rewards Points: 284
Default

Can i do this? tapping an existing outlet...


All wood stoves that I've installed have a very specific diagram that shows the required clearances from the stove to the receptacle for the blower.

Mark

busman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wiring a GFCI Outdoor Outlet from an Inside Outlet - Parallel or Series? Pacal Electrical 28 11-13-2010 04:36 PM
disposal switch from existing outlet wilderstyle Electrical 20 04-20-2009 07:33 PM
wiring in a light fixture to an existing outlet tjc460 Electrical 8 05-26-2008 10:32 AM
Tapping into existing metal duct Mike_Atlanta HVAC 1 11-30-2007 01:07 AM
Drywalling an existing outlet? 1nonly Electrical 16 03-05-2007 02:54 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.