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-   -   Can i do this? tapping an existing outlet... (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/can-i-do-tapping-existing-outlet-56172/)

nuf2BeDangerous 10-28-2009 09:28 PM

Can i do this? tapping an existing outlet...
 
Hello all,


I am installing a woodstove. As part ot the process, i have removed an existing (antique wood) wall treatment, which i will be replacing with 2 layers of plastered fireblock drywall. I will be installing a small decorative mantel after the wall is closed in, and while i have it open (and before re-insulating) i would like to add a few outlets (on a switch) at the mantel level, so i can plug in some low-wattage candle or lantern-type lights.

To do this, can i tap into this existing outlet ?
(Original metal box has been replaced with adjustable-depth box to accomodate the 1.25" of drywall)

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...g?t=1256782826




The end result would be something like this:

(Components are just tacked into place for illustrative purposes.)

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r...g?t=1256783010




Beyond this outlet, (first stop from breaker) the circuit feeds one additional outlet, and then 2 exterior lights which use ordinary bulbs (100 watt max), so i don't think there is a load issue. The existing outlet might however be used to power an optional blower on the wood stove, if it turns out i need it. I am not sure if said blower runs continuously or not, for the purposes of this project, let's say it will. There are no breaker slots left in the subpanel to allow for a new circuit. I am in PA, if it makes any difference.


I appreciate any info...


Thanks in advance.



















Edit: Forgot to mention, the other wire-line visible in the pics feeds an electric baseboard heater, on separate circuit...in case the question arises.

Magnettica 10-28-2009 11:37 PM

What you need more than anything else is to secure those cables within 8" of any box and no more than 54" between supports.

nuf2BeDangerous 10-29-2009 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magnettica (Post 346780)
What you need more than anything else is to secure those cables within 8" of any box and no more than 54" between supports.

Thanks for replying Magnettica. Yeah, i suspected the wiring as it exists was improperly secured. I think my father did the wiring, about 45 years ago...he was not an electrician, heh. I'll wire-staple all the cables once i am sure of the wiring routing (fortunately there is enough play in the wires to do so).

"54 inches between supports"...do you mean the spans between the cat blocks? if so, they are 24" centers (roughly..seems they were "eyeballed").

As for the overall plan, is it a legit idea? As you can tell, i know squat about codes/approved techniques, and the NEC is pretty involved for someone like me...

Scuba_Dave 10-29-2009 08:07 AM

My concern would be having that outlet behind the wood stove
As long as required clearances are met it should be OK
But I know how hot my wood stove used to get at the old house

Are you keeping the wall drywall?
I used brick at my last house to create a large heat sink
This house I will be using stone

I don't see any specific problem with the setup
I have 2 outlets on my mantel - but live all the time

Is that the stove exhaust or fresh air intake?

AllanJ 10-29-2009 08:28 AM

The hole in the 2x4 counts as a support so you don't always have to stretch the cable over to another 2x4 to staple it in place. If the last hole is more than 8 inches from the box (12 inches if the box opening has a clamp or finger to hold the cable) then you would need to curve the wire gently to a suitable spot on the 2x4 and staple it there.

The box with 3 cables going into it needs to be extra large, like 21 cubic inches, if you have a 20 amp. circuit with 12 gauge wires, or if there are wire clamps at the box openings protruding into the box.

Nit picking: Since you have the wall open, I would rerun the wire at the lower left to go through alternate stud cavities not shared by the stove pipe. Two cables can share the same hole if they fit loosely.

joed 10-29-2009 08:40 AM

I would make one change. Instead of going across and down I would go down from the switch and then across. Going to be difficult getting into the top of that box when coming from above unless you remove the 2x4 cross brace or lower the box.

nuf2BeDangerous 10-29-2009 03:21 PM

Thanks everyone for your replies.






Quote:

Originally Posted by Scuba_Dave (Post 346847)
My concern would be having that outlet behind the wood stove
As long as required clearances are met it should be OK
But I know how hot my wood stove used to get at the old house

Are you keeping the wall drywall?
I used brick at my last house to create a large heat sink
This house I will be using stone

I don't see any specific problem with the setup
I have 2 outlets on my mantel - but live all the time

Is that the stove exhaust or fresh air intake?


Yes, the wall will be fireblock drywall, plastered.

I actually had to look at a lotttt of stoves to find one with close enough clearances for this installation...it's a very narrow room, and most of them would have stuck oddly into the middle of the room. This one (Hearthstone brand, model is a Shelburne) only needs 6" from the corner of the stove to a flammable wall (with the optional heat shield, which i also bought). Technically, this means i could actually have kept the incredibly dry antique wood on the walls, by manufacturers specs. However, i realllly was not comfortable with that , which is why i am doing the fireblock wall instead.

The vent is for a cold air intake, yep...this is an old house, and the combustion drawing air from inside the house would likely cause some serious drafting.


Quote:

Originally Posted by AllanJ (Post 346854)
The hole in the 2x4 counts as a support so you don't always have to stretch the cable over to another 2x4 to staple it in place. If the last hole is more than 8 inches from the box (12 inches if the box opening has a clamp or finger to hold the cable) then you would need to curve the wire gently to a suitable spot on the 2x4 and staple it there.

The box with 3 cables going into it needs to be extra large, like 21 cubic inches, if you have a 20 amp. circuit with 12 gauge wires, or if there are wire clamps at the box openings protruding into the box.

Nit picking: Since you have the wall open, I would rerun the wire at the lower left to go through alternate stud cavities not shared by the stove pipe. Two cables can share the same hole if they fit loosely.

Hmm..dangit. I come up with 19.5 cubic inches, with the box pictured. I suppose i could use a double box, then?

As for moving that other wire, i would either have to cut it out of the studs, or disassemble the baseboard heater to disconnect it and pull it back through the holes...i wonder if it'd be worth it, since the vent pipe is only a cold-air intake?



Quote:

Originally Posted by joed (Post 346857)
I would make one change. Instead of going across and down I would go down from the switch and then across. Going to be difficult getting into the top of that box when coming from above unless you remove the 2x4 cross brace or lower the box.


Ahh, good point. Thanks, i'll do that.

busman 10-29-2009 05:10 PM

All wood stoves that I've installed have a very specific diagram that shows the required clearances from the stove to the receptacle for the blower.

Mark


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