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Old 02-26-2012, 05:22 PM   #16
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cable line grounding


For bonding ground rods (and all qualifying grounding electrodes) you must use #6 copper wire or equivalent (or in a few instances better). Run that wire around the building perimeter if needed.xxxxx Drill a hole in the rim joist or something and run the ground wire across the basement ceiling if needed.

You can get away with informal grounds such as wires running loose and exposed to pieces of equipment being bonded to the nearest pipe although you need to make sure that the pipe provides a continuous electrical path to another bonding wire going to the panel i.e. does not have a plastic section in the middle.

(Between buildings the ground wire accompanying the feed wires, even if smaller than #6, suffices to bond grounding electrodes.)

The grounding block pictured several replies above can result in some video signal loss, given that the coax cable has to be cut and joined there.

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Old 02-26-2012, 05:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll

Take a picture and post of this attachment for ground. You can not attach to the spigot outside, due to it is not a proper ground. You may end up having to have telco and cable ran around the side of the house to enter where power does, so that it can be properly bonded to the ground rod.
Dude, there is no "side of the house", it is a city row house with attached city row houses on both sides
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:28 PM   #18
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What y'all are saying sounds beautiful and makes sense and I'm sure it's doable with SFHs. However, refer to my description of the property and utility entry points above for why that is not possible. However, since I am positive 85% of homes in my area are like mine exactly in all aspects, I am sure the utilities cos have an established workaround...
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:30 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by amakarevic View Post
What y'all are saying sounds beautiful and makes sense and I'm sure it's doable with SFHs. However, refer to my description of the property and utility entry points above for why that is not possible. However, since I am positive 85% of homes in my area are like mine exactly in all aspects, I am sure the utilities cos have an established workaround...
There is no such thing as a work around.
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:32 PM   #20
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Dude, there is no "side of the house", it is a city row house with attached city row houses on both sides
There is a way to do it, but it requires more info as to showing a picture of the area (ie google maps, with relevant info blacked out), or picture that you have taken to give all of us an idea of what you are dealing with.
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:33 PM   #21
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There is no such thing as a work around.
Well how do you think it's done in this exact use case scenario??? By drilling a tunnel under the house?
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:38 PM   #22
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The Comcast dude is coming tomorrow, this will be the first question to ask him. And will relay to yall.
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:41 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by amakarevic View Post
Well how do you think it's done in this exact use case scenario??? By drilling a tunnel under the house?
It has already been explained what to do.
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:53 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by amakarevic View Post
The Comcast dude is coming tomorrow, this will be the first question to ask him. And will relay to yall.
And you know the first question that he/she will ask is "What is the problem, because I am not seeing one.", or they will never even come to your house, but check at the pole or pedestal, and close the ticket as no problem.

It is not something that they will take their time to do, unless the ground is missing, or you get someone anal, and they do not like how it is currently grounded, and redo it, which will pretty much be how it is now.

From the 2011 NEC:

Exception: In one- and two-family dwellings where it is not
practicable to achieve an overall maximum bonding conduc-
tor or grounding electrode conductor length of 6.0 m (20 ft), a
separate grounding electrode as specified in 250.52(A)(5),
(A)(6), or (A)(7) shall be used, the grounding electrode con-
ductor shall be connected to the separate grounding elec-
trode in accordance with 250.70, and the separate
grounding electrode shall be connected to the power
grounding electrode system in accordance with 820.100(D).

The 20-ft limitation on length results in a lower imped-
ance, which in turn limits the potential difference between
CATV systems and other systems during a lightning strike.
Large potential differences between grounding conductors
can result in increased damage if a lightning strike were to
occur.

The informational note to 820.100(A)(4) provides guid-
ance for the treatment of the cable and primary protector
grounding conductor length at apartment and commercial
buildings that is consistent with the 20-ft rule for one- and
two-family dwellings. However, a specific length is not
specified in the Code, because such a limitation may not be
practical in some installations.

Section 820.100(D) requires bonding of CATV and power
grounding electrodes at the same building or structure. A
common error made in grounding CATV systems is con-
necting the coaxial cable sheath to a rod-type grounding
electrode driven by the CATV installer at a convenient loca-
tion near the point of cable entry to the building, instead of
bonding it to the electrical service grounding electrode sys-
tem, service raceway, or other components that make up the
grounding electrode system. A separate grounding electrode
is permitted only if the building or structure has none of the
grounding means described in 820.100(B)(1) or (B)(2),
which is rare.

Section 250.94 requires that a bonding means with not
less than three termination points that is accessible and ex-
ternal to the service equipment be provided for making the
bonding and grounding connection for other systems. One
of the following means is permitted for existing installa-
tions:

1. Exposed nonflexible metallic raceways
2. An exposed grounding electrode conductor
3. An approved means for the external connection of a
conductor (A 6 AWG copper conductor with one end
bonded to the service raceway or equipment with about
6 in. exposed is acceptable.)

Proper bonding of the CATV system coaxial cable
sheath to the electrical power grounding electrode is needed
to prevent potential fire and shock hazards. The earth cannot
be used as an equipment grounding conductor or bonding
conductor, because it does not have the required low-
impedance path. (See 250.54.)

Both CATV systems and power systems are subject to
current surges as a result of, for example, induced voltages
from lightning in the vicinity of the usually extensive out-
side distribution systems. Surges also result from switching
operations on power systems. If the grounded conductors
and parts of the two systems are not bonded by a low-
impedance path, such line surges can raise the potential dif-
ference between the two systems to many thousands of volts.
This can result in arcing between the two systems for
example, wherever the coaxial cable jacket contacts a
grounded part, such as a metal water pipe or metal structural
member inside the building.

If a person is the interface between the two systems and
the bonding has not been done in accordance with the Code,
the high-voltage surge could result in electric shock. More
common, however, is burnout of a television tuner, a part
that is almost always an interface between the two systems.
The tuner is connected to the power system ground through
the grounded neutral of the power supply, even if the televi-
sion set itself is not provided with an equipment grounding
conductor.

Also see the commentary following 250.92(B) and
820.100(E).

The bonding requirement of 250.94 addresses the diffi-
culties sometimes encountered by communications and
CATV installers trying to properly bond their respective sys-
tems together and to the electrical supply system. These dif-
ficulties arise from the increasing use of nonmetallic
materials for water pipe, fittings, water meters, and service
conduit. In the past, bonding between communications,
CATV, and power systems was usually achieved by connect-
ing the communications protector grounds or cable shield to
an interior metallic water pipe, because the pipe was often
used as the power grounding electrode. Thus, the require-
ment that the power, communications, CATV cable shield,
and metallic water piping systems be bonded together was
easily satisfied. If the power was grounded to one of the
other electrodes permitted by the Code, usually by a made
electrode such as a ground rod, the bond was connected to
the power grounding electrode conductor or to a metallic
service raceway, since at least one of these was usually ac-
cessible.

With the proliferation of plastic water pipe and the ser-
vice equipment sometimes being installed in finished areas
(often flush-mounted), where the grounding electrode con-
ductor is typically concealed, as well as the increased use of
nonmetallic service-entrance conduit, communications and
CATV installers often do not have access to a suitable point
for connecting bonding jumpers or grounding electrode con-
ductors. For further information, see the commentary fol-
lowing 820.100(D), Informational Note No. 2.
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:17 PM   #25
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cable line grounding


I have seen some cable installers install this silly little clip on the meter for a ground. Don't make sense when all that is in the meter socket is the neutral and that has to pass all the way back to the main service for a ground.

I really don't understand how that makes a good ground.
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:27 PM   #26
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I have seen some cable installers install this silly little clip on the meter for a ground. Don't make sense when all that is in the meter socket is the neutral and that has to pass all the way back to the main service for a ground.

I really don't understand how that makes a good ground.
Mine has a ground running from it, to ground the can to the grounding rod. I thought that the strap was silly also, since there is usually paint on the box, or they scrape it off, if they are wise, and in turn causes the box to rust over time.
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:29 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by gregzoll
It has already been explained what to do.
It was explained assuming you can connect the power and phone/cable ground rods. But it is impossible because they are on two unconnectable sides of the house
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:32 PM   #28
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I just spoke with a friend who is an elec engineer and he says the ground rod for the phone and cable should be separate from power and not even connected cause a connection can disrupt the phone/cable signal. Just relaying what he said, verbatim.
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Old 02-26-2012, 06:50 PM   #29
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The electrical engineer apparently does not know the electrical code requirements.

Is there a reason a conductor cannot be run through the ceiling of the house in the basement from front to back to connect the rods?
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Old 02-26-2012, 07:03 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port
Is there a reason a conductor cannot be run through the ceiling of the house in the basement from front to back to connect the rods?
Is this a joke? Well, I will ask the dude tomorrow. In fact, to be sure, I will show him this thread first hand to avoid lost in translation. But I appreciate everyone's input. Sounds like a stalemate from the code Nazi points of view. I will ask my neighbor if I can take his house down in order to run wire underground to connect the two rods...

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