Butt Joint Connection - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-04-2013, 06:36 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 19
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Butt Joint Connection


Hi all,

I'm moving an electrical outlet using wire molding and a surface mount outlet box. Well, this is my intention anyway.

I removed the old outlet box and surface molding and was left with two black wires coming out of the wall.

Butt Joint Connection-dscn1995.jpg
Butt Joint Connection-dscn1996.jpg

Now I have to connect new wire to these old wires and run that up the molding to the box.

So my question is, is it best to solder this connection? Or will this product work?

Butt Joint Connection-dscn1997.jpg

Thanks.

Advertisement

scott490 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 07:13 PM   #2
Electrical Contractor
 
rrolleston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Granville, NY
Posts: 1,941
Rewards Points: 1,000
Send a message via AIM to rrolleston Send a message via Yahoo to rrolleston
Default

Butt Joint Connection


You will have to add a junction box to extend that circuit. And you will have to use wire nuts.

Sent from my iPhone using DIY Forum

Advertisement

__________________
With Electricity there is the right way to do it and the dead way. Just because it works does not make it safe.
rrolleston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 07:26 PM   #3
MarginallyQualified
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Winston-Salem NC
Posts: 3,797
Rewards Points: 2,268
Default

Butt Joint Connection


Quote:
Originally Posted by scott490 View Post
I removed the old outlet box and surface molding
and was left with two black wires coming out of the wall.
Is this a 240V circuit?
Where is the neutral? The ground?

Quote:
Now I have to connect new wire to these old wires
and run that up the molding to the box.

So my question is, is it best to solder this connection?
No.

Once you re-establish the entire circuit (find the missing wires)
then (as rrolleston said) terminate them in a junction box and go from there.
TarheelTerp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 07:36 PM   #4
Member
 
Oso954's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Northern Calif.
Posts: 1,797
Rewards Points: 1,474
Default

Butt Joint Connection


I'd also question the wire size. It should be #14, yet the picture of the butt connectors is #16-22.
Oso954 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 08:02 PM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 19
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Butt Joint Connection


Quote:
Originally Posted by TarheelTerp View Post
Is this a 240V circuit?
Where is the neutral? The ground?
Not a 240.

No ground apparently. Just the two wires as shown. The old outlet didn't have anything connected to the ground screw.
scott490 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 08:07 PM   #6
MarginallyQualified
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Winston-Salem NC
Posts: 3,797
Rewards Points: 2,268
Default

Butt Joint Connection


Quote:
Originally Posted by scott490 View Post
Not a 240. No ground apparently. Just the two wires as shown.
The old outlet didn't have anything connected to the ground screw.
Dig deeper. Find where those wires come from.
If THAT connection doesn't have an identified neutral (white)...
then dig deeper still until you find where those wires come from.
TarheelTerp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 08:55 PM   #7
Semi-Pro Electro-Geek
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 2,570
Rewards Points: 2,036
Default

Butt Joint Connection


Something's real bad wrong here, as they say. This was clearly not installed by a competent person. You're going to have to remove it back to wherever the properly-done wiring is, and redo it form there.
__________________
I am a lawyer, but not your lawyer. And who cares anyways? We're here to talk construction. This is DIY advice, not legal advice.
mpoulton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 09:06 PM   #8
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 19
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Butt Joint Connection


Thanks for the responses. Unfortunately getting to the bottom of this would be tough or very expensive. This is a 1920s apartment bldg and the wiring is behind tons of plaster. If I do as some have said and route this thru a junction box would that not be an answer and at least be safer than the old setup?
scott490 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2013, 09:12 PM   #9
MarginallyQualified
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Winston-Salem NC
Posts: 3,797
Rewards Points: 2,268
Default

Butt Joint Connection


Quote:
Originally Posted by scott490 View Post
This is a 1920s apartment bldg and the wiring is behind tons of plaster.
If the power went out to this would you know where the fuse or breaker is?
If so... then half the job is done. If not... then leave it alone.

Quote:
If I do as some have said and route this thru a junction box...
You'll need to do this no matter what else you do.
Install a box in that corner, wirenut the ends and close it up.

The question is whether you can (safely) reinstall an outlet in that box...
or add additional wire, wiremold and other boxes/outlets as you planned.
TarheelTerp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 06:55 AM   #10
A "Handy Husband"
 
rjniles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: South Carolina Low Country
Posts: 4,230
Rewards Points: 2,370
Default

Butt Joint Connection


You are not allowed to extend an ungrounded circuit. You should not being doing work in a rental unit.
__________________
Location:
Coastal South Carolina
rjniles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 08:22 AM   #11
Electrical Contractor
 
rrolleston's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Granville, NY
Posts: 1,941
Rewards Points: 1,000
Send a message via AIM to rrolleston Send a message via Yahoo to rrolleston
Default

Butt Joint Connection


Zooming in on the picture looks like the two wires just come out of the wall and they are stranded. I would find out where they come from. I would not extent them to add more receptacles.

Sent from my iPhone using DIY Forum
__________________
With Electricity there is the right way to do it and the dead way. Just because it works does not make it safe.
rrolleston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 10:14 AM   #12
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 19
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Butt Joint Connection


So I guess what I'm hearing is that those 2 wires fed an illegal, code violating outlet for decades and should not be reused.
scott490 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to scott490 For This Useful Post:
mpoulton (02-05-2013)
Old 02-05-2013, 11:26 AM   #13
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 19
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Butt Joint Connection


Quote:
Originally Posted by TarheelTerp View Post
If the power went out to this would you know where the fuse or breaker is?
Yes there is a circuit breaker which controls this outlet as well as 2 others in the apartment.
scott490 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 01:05 PM   #14
Semi-Pro Electro-Geek
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Arizona, USA
Posts: 2,570
Rewards Points: 2,036
Default

Butt Joint Connection


Quote:
Originally Posted by scott490 View Post
So I guess what I'm hearing is that those 2 wires fed an illegal, code violating outlet for decades and should not be reused.
Yep. That's about right.
__________________
I am a lawyer, but not your lawyer. And who cares anyways? We're here to talk construction. This is DIY advice, not legal advice.
mpoulton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2013, 03:20 PM   #15
MarginallyQualified
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Winston-Salem NC
Posts: 3,797
Rewards Points: 2,268
Default

Butt Joint Connection


Quote:
Originally Posted by scott490 View Post
Yes there is a circuit breaker which controls this outlet as well as 2 others in the apartment.
Then (as mentioned above) you should/may be able to trace back along this
circuit until you find an appropriate source of power to feed your room and how to route the NEW cable needed to replace the existing wire.

If you have to go back to the panel... so be it.
If you can't do the above you're back to (safely) abandoning the existing wire in place.

Advertisement

TarheelTerp is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Butt end to tapered end? Oxymoron Drywall & Plaster 14 05-18-2013 06:43 PM
Concrete floor prep for ceramic tile tpanc13 Flooring 39 06-22-2010 09:50 PM
How to rotate this t joint on drain? hobbs in vanvouver Plumbing 9 02-16-2010 10:55 PM
Cracked drywall at joint near door? ClemsonJeeper Drywall & Plaster 6 11-06-2009 04:27 PM
Telephone Jack Connection Problem jogan Electrical 9 04-20-2009 07:10 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts