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scott490 02-04-2013 05:36 PM

Butt Joint Connection
 
3 Attachment(s)
Hi all,

I'm moving an electrical outlet using wire molding and a surface mount outlet box. Well, this is my intention anyway.

I removed the old outlet box and surface molding and was left with two black wires coming out of the wall.

Attachment 64954
Attachment 64955

Now I have to connect new wire to these old wires and run that up the molding to the box.

So my question is, is it best to solder this connection? Or will this product work?

Attachment 64957

Thanks.

rrolleston 02-04-2013 06:13 PM

You will have to add a junction box to extend that circuit. And you will have to use wire nuts.

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TarheelTerp 02-04-2013 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott490 (Post 1109594)
I removed the old outlet box and surface molding
and was left with two black wires coming out of the wall.

Is this a 240V circuit?
Where is the neutral? The ground?

Quote:

Now I have to connect new wire to these old wires
and run that up the molding to the box.

So my question is, is it best to solder this connection?
No.

Once you re-establish the entire circuit (find the missing wires)
then (as rrolleston said) terminate them in a junction box and go from there.

Oso954 02-04-2013 06:36 PM

I'd also question the wire size. It should be #14, yet the picture of the butt connectors is #16-22.

scott490 02-04-2013 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarheelTerp (Post 1109623)
Is this a 240V circuit?
Where is the neutral? The ground?

Not a 240.

No ground apparently. Just the two wires as shown. The old outlet didn't have anything connected to the ground screw.

TarheelTerp 02-04-2013 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott490 (Post 1109651)
Not a 240. No ground apparently. Just the two wires as shown.
The old outlet didn't have anything connected to the ground screw.

Dig deeper. Find where those wires come from.
If THAT connection doesn't have an identified neutral (white)...
then dig deeper still until you find where those wires come from.

mpoulton 02-04-2013 07:55 PM

Something's real bad wrong here, as they say. This was clearly not installed by a competent person. You're going to have to remove it back to wherever the properly-done wiring is, and redo it form there.

scott490 02-04-2013 08:06 PM

Thanks for the responses. Unfortunately getting to the bottom of this would be tough or very expensive. This is a 1920s apartment bldg and the wiring is behind tons of plaster. If I do as some have said and route this thru a junction box would that not be an answer and at least be safer than the old setup?

TarheelTerp 02-04-2013 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott490 (Post 1109704)
This is a 1920s apartment bldg and the wiring is behind tons of plaster.

If the power went out to this would you know where the fuse or breaker is?
If so... then half the job is done. If not... then leave it alone.

Quote:

If I do as some have said and route this thru a junction box...
You'll need to do this no matter what else you do.
Install a box in that corner, wirenut the ends and close it up.

The question is whether you can (safely) reinstall an outlet in that box...
or add additional wire, wiremold and other boxes/outlets as you planned.

rjniles 02-05-2013 05:55 AM

You are not allowed to extend an ungrounded circuit. You should not being doing work in a rental unit.

rrolleston 02-05-2013 07:22 AM

Zooming in on the picture looks like the two wires just come out of the wall and they are stranded. I would find out where they come from. I would not extent them to add more receptacles.

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scott490 02-05-2013 09:14 AM

So I guess what I'm hearing is that those 2 wires fed an illegal, code violating outlet for decades and should not be reused.

scott490 02-05-2013 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TarheelTerp (Post 1109706)
If the power went out to this would you know where the fuse or breaker is?

Yes there is a circuit breaker which controls this outlet as well as 2 others in the apartment.

mpoulton 02-05-2013 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott490 (Post 1110039)
So I guess what I'm hearing is that those 2 wires fed an illegal, code violating outlet for decades and should not be reused.

Yep. That's about right.

TarheelTerp 02-05-2013 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scott490 (Post 1110106)
Yes there is a circuit breaker which controls this outlet as well as 2 others in the apartment.

Then (as mentioned above) you should/may be able to trace back along this
circuit until you find an appropriate source of power to feed your room and how to route the NEW cable needed to replace the existing wire.

If you have to go back to the panel... so be it.
If you can't do the above you're back to (safely) abandoning the existing wire in place.


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