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-   -   bus bar - 2 in a hole (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/bus-bar-2-hole-16515/)

bp2 02-02-2008 01:28 PM

bus bar - 2 in a hole
 
Is is all right to run two ground wires through the same hole on a bus bar?

Pudge565 02-02-2008 01:36 PM

yes you can run 2 grounds in the same hole on a bus bar however you can't run a neutral and a ground together or 2 neutrals together.

Al the Diy guy 02-02-2008 02:37 PM

Re:
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pudge565 (Post 94316)
yes you can run 2 grounds in the same hole on a bus bar however you can't run a neutral and a ground together or 2 neutrals together.


Uh Oh....I am working on another project and was in my main today and who ever wired it (8 year old house) has the bare copper and the white (neutral?) in the same holes....Do I have a problem here???:eek:

Pudge565 02-02-2008 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al the Diy guy (Post 94332)
Uh Oh....I am working on another project and was in my main today and who ever wired it (8 year old house) has the bare copper and the white (neutral?) in the same holes....Do I have a problem here???:eek:

under new code yes 8 years ago I'm not sure since I wasn't working in the field but probably I would put them in their own holes.

Al the Diy guy 02-02-2008 05:26 PM

Pudge, yea, it doesn't make sense not to, that was wierd seeing that, the ground bus (attached to the BIG green wire) is on the right and the neutral bus is on the left but whoever did it ran both the neutral and grounds into the same holes either on the left or right as the cables entered the box...Crazy...I have a county inspector coming out tuesday for a pool electrical inspection, I will show him and let you guys know what he says...perhaps I should take a pic?

bp2 02-02-2008 06:46 PM

Pudge, I'm not doubting your answer, but since everything is connected on the bus bar, I would love to know the thinking behind:
1) It's OK to double up w/ two ground wires
2) It's not OK to double up two neutral wires or a ground and a neutral.
Thanks,
bp2

junkcollector 02-02-2008 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bp2 (Post 94379)
I would love to know the thinking behind:
1) It's OK to double up w/ two ground wires
2) It's not OK to double up two neutral wires or a ground and a neutral.

The reason being is that the grounds are not current carrying conductors under normal conditions. Neutrals carry current.

'08 code changes it anyway...

Al the Diy guy 02-02-2008 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junkcollector (Post 94384)
The reason being is that the grounds are not current carrying conductors under normal conditions. Neutrals carry current.

'08 code changes it anyway...


Junkcollector, what do the 08 codes say about this, (must be seperated, would be my guess)

Pudge565 02-02-2008 09:13 PM

hey al don't get confused between haveing grounds and neutrals on the same bus in a MAIN panel to having grounds and neutrals in the same hole. the reason being is that main panels have the neutral and ground bars bonded. Unless you have a main disconect between the meter and main panel then grounds and neutrals must be isolated from each other. bp2 to answer your question I don't know the reason behind it but its in the NEC so its just "law" and from what my tech teacher tells me there is an eception. if the panel has oval holes in the bus bar 2 neutrals can be put in it my teachers theory is that its because with the oval one the screw will push it against the side of the hole thus making a tighter connection.

Al the Diy guy 02-02-2008 09:53 PM

Thanks Pudge....was worried :thumbsup:

nap 02-02-2008 10:01 PM

You cannot put 2 neutrals in the same hole. You can put 2 grounds EGC in the same hole IF the ground bar is rated to have 2 wires in the same hole.

If it is not rated as such, it is illegal.

junkcollector; what is the code section regarding the change?

goose134 02-02-2008 10:16 PM

Part of the reason you cannot terminate two neutrals in one hole is because if, during the course of service, one of the neutrals needs to be removed and the other accidentally comes off...open neutral. I'm here to tell you it's a BAD thing. If it is the neutral for a MWBC, all appliances will go 220. If you happen to grab the neutral you will get whacked something fierce.
I got nailed on one at my buddy's place and I had to convince my arm that we needed to let go. Even had to do a backward count in my head. When I got off of it, my buddy says: "You were humming" I told him "I always thought that noise was in my head."

Bottom line: Code says land one per hole. Panel manufacturers say land one per hole. There isn't much reason you should need to run two in a hole.

bp2 02-02-2008 10:33 PM

EGC?
MWBC?
Is there a problem with using a short piece of wire and a wire nut to extend the length of a ground wire to reach a spare hole?

nap 02-03-2008 12:20 AM

egc- equipment grounding conductor i.e. ground

mwbc- multiwire branch circuit- where two hots (in a resi situaiotn) share a neutral.


generally not a problem extending the wire although I have had inspectors look down their noses at such work. I know of no code violation but they always seem to think there is one.

bp2 02-03-2008 08:39 AM

OK – Pudge says that I can put 2 grounds in the same hole.
Nap says that 2 ground wires can be in the same hole IF the ground bar is rated for it.

How do I determine if the ground bar (there is only one bus bar used for both ground and neutral) is rated for 2 ground wires in the same hole?

Would it be better to add a small length of wire to the ground wire so that it can have it’s own hole or leave the two ground wires in the same hole as it is now? I really don’t want to reorganize the whole bus bar to free up a hole within reach of the second ground wire.

Thanks,
bp2


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