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Old 03-31-2013, 05:32 PM   #1
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Burnt Wires


Hi

My dishwasher and garbage disposal stopped working. I knew they were on the same circuit. I checked the power with volt meter and could only see power if I touched the black and ground wires. White did not work.

Took off the breaker panel and saw the burnt wires. See attached. This home is 3 years old and thought the wiring was OK.

Why didn't the breaker flip?

I installed the disposal 3 years ago and used the same circuit as the dishwasher. Do you think that caused the problem - running the dishwasher and disposal at the same time? The dishwasher was replaced 2 years ago and the new one has a sanitized wash mode that heats the water - could that be the problem.

What do you think caused the problem? Thanks
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Old 03-31-2013, 05:35 PM   #2
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Burnt Wires


for starters, if you knew the dishwasher and the garbage disposal were on the same circuit, you should have done something to rectify that.

They dont belong on the same circuit according to the NEC.

And if the circuit didnt trip, you could have oversized the conductors, or faulty breaker.

Ya live and you learn, count your blessings here


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Old 03-31-2013, 05:44 PM   #3
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Burnt Wires


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Originally Posted by greencat View Post
Hi

My dishwasher and garbage disposal stopped working. I knew they were on the same circuit. I checked the power with volt meter and could only see power if I touched the black and ground wires. White did not work.

Took off the breaker panel and saw the burnt wires. See attached. This home is 3 years old and thought the wiring was OK.

Why didn't the breaker flip?

I installed the disposal 3 years ago and used the same circuit as the dishwasher. Do you think that caused the problem - running the dishwasher and disposal at the same time? The dishwasher was replaced 2 years ago and the new one has a sanitized wash mode that heats the water - could that be the problem.

What do you think caused the problem? Thanks
1) are the lugs TIGHT ???

2) are there any RED wires in the panel ??? the burnt ones are white ... ( well used to be )
if so how many ??
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:07 PM   #4
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Burnt Wires


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Originally Posted by jratftcc View Post
for starters, if you knew the dishwasher and the garbage disposal were on the same circuit, you should have done something to rectify that.

They dont belong on the same circuit according to the NEC.

And if the circuit didnt trip, you could have oversized the conductors, or faulty breaker.

Ya live and you learn, count your blessings here

Really. Code section?
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:16 PM   #5
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Burnt Wires


Quote:
Originally Posted by greencat View Post
Hi

My dishwasher and garbage disposal stopped working. I knew they were on the same circuit. I checked the power with volt meter and could only see power if I touched the black and ground wires. White did not work.

Took off the breaker panel and saw the burnt wires. See attached. This home is 3 years old and thought the wiring was OK.

Why didn't the breaker flip?

I installed the disposal 3 years ago and used the same circuit as the dishwasher. Do you think that caused the problem - running the dishwasher and disposal at the same time? The dishwasher was replaced 2 years ago and the new one has a sanitized wash mode that heats the water - could that be the problem.

What do you think caused the problem? Thanks
Looks like the damage was caused by heat build up !
WHY ?
either the wires were overloaded,
or there was a poor connecttion between
the wires and the terminal block.
Remember at high power, just a little extra
resistance can generate a lot of heat.
so it's vitally important to use correct sized wires
and make sure the connecttions are clean and good !
Possibbly one or more wires have worked loose.
Wires will expand slightly each time they are used,
so - expand - contract - expand - contract, etc
can lead to loose connections
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:18 PM   #6
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Burnt Wires


WHat size is the GD?
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:37 PM   #7
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Burnt Wires


First of all .,

1) how many amps do that dishwasher is running ? ( look at the nameplate for that info )

2) How many amps garbage dispoal unit is running ? ( again look for nameplate )

3) Not sure if this is correct on the photo look like ya got 2.5mm2 ( 14 gauge ) and what breaker size this is on ?

4) look like one of the screws on netural bussbar is not really tightend down properly.

Do you have any mulitwire branch circuits ? If so are they in correct postion ?

I have a feeling the dishwasher is pretty close to the limit of that circuit but I will wait for your reply on nameplate info before I can go further.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 03-31-2013, 06:53 PM   #8
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I think Frenchelectrician nailed it, those white wires (presumably the neutrals) look like they are all 14 gage. Possibly you have 20A breakers with 14 gauge wire? If so it is entirely possible to overload the wire with 20A or even a little more and not trip the breaker. Given the number of burned wires, this may be a systemic problem in your house.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:00 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman View Post
I think Frenchelectrician nailed it, those white wires (presumably the neutrals) look like they are all 14 gage. Possibly you have 20A breakers with 14 gauge wire? If so it is entirely possible to overload the wire with 20A or even a little more and not trip the breaker. Given the number of burned wires, this may be a systemic problem in your house.
Bonjour Dan.,

I think the OP's situatuion may be worst than that and I will ask the OP to take a photo of whole panel to see what is going on and I have a feeling something is not adding up right with this.

To OP will you take a photo of whole panel this way we can get the facts in better this way and the photo will tell us the story what is going on.

I think there is something more going on with this.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:11 PM   #10
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Burnt Wires


first, i am not an electrician.

I agree with all of the above posts.

to see at least 6 neutrals in a row burned as badly as these are something is terribly wrong. the ones in the middle of the neutral bar are the ones suspect.

I would inspect the entire box. Are any others showing discoloring? trace out where all burnt wires are going. check all devises wired to any of thoswe circuits. It may be a space heater or other high draaw device on any of those wires, not just the dishwasher/ gd.

pictures

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Old 03-31-2013, 08:11 PM   #11
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Burnt Wires


Thanks for your responses. The breaker is 15 amps and there are no red wires. Locks like only 1 wire burned but 4 above that wire melted. Attached are more pictures. The specifications for the dishwasher is 15 amps don't know if it draws that much.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:15 PM   #12
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Replying to another comment. We don't have any high draw items.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:44 PM   #13
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The label on the dishwasher says 9.4 amps. I think the burning took place a while ago since I don't smell any burning but remember a burning smell about a month ago. I had added the gb to the dishwasher circuit since they normally don't run at the same time.

I wonder if it was a lose lug since the breaker didn't trip and the dishwasher worked for a month after burning.
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:48 PM   #14
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Burnt Wires


Looks like a classic loose connection to me.
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Old 03-31-2013, 09:26 PM   #15
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Burnt Wires


Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Holzman View Post
I think Frenchelectrician nailed it, those white wires (presumably the neutrals) look like they are all 14 gage. Possibly you have 20A breakers with 14 gauge wire? If so it is entirely possible to overload the wire with 20A or even a little more and not trip the breaker. Given the number of burned wires, this may be a systemic problem in your house.
14 AWG is actually rated for 20 amps, the NEC is what forbids us in using it in this manner, so we can rule out that assumption right now.

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