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Old 07-14-2013, 12:36 PM   #16
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Buried EMT - Hot tub installation


I give it 10 years at the most. Spots will corrode faster than others. This corrosion produces very sharp edges. Is this the scenario you want when talking about your hot tub wiring?

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Old 07-14-2013, 01:25 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by hades281 View Post
Thanks for responses so far -

fj5gtx - We had a trencher but its maximum depth was 10 inches and we had real problems getting it any deeper than 8". It had a large disc with four teeth on it rather than a chainsaw-like bar and chain.
I looked at those disc types once - not impressed. The one I pictured usually goes 18" deep. When it comes to ground contact, I've learned to rent the larger machine. For instance, if I need to drill a hole to the frost line - I won't be renting the two person auger... I rent the tow behind hydraulic machine.

Let me get this straight. You've buried regular wire (not UF) in EMT, in the trench next to sprinkler lines, in clay... that supplies a large tub of water intended for people to sit in....

Almost seems like you're trolling! Isn't it obvious you should go rent a much better trencher and do it right? Buy PVC and put it deep.
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:30 PM   #18
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Buried EMT - Hot tub installation


Thanks all for responses so far.

If I remove the THWN from the EMT (and remove/abandon the EMT run), I can run the wire from the circuit box into the attic, across the house, and come out the eave at the rear of the house. I have a good place to run grey PVC conduit vertically down the house, with one end penetrating the eave and dig the PVC down 18" deep.

This method reduces the amount of trenching by a huge margin. The amount left to trench can be done with cursing and a pick-axe, and as an added bonus, I don't have to drill a large hole in the brick to accept the LB.

Is there any reason why this would not meet code? (A friend's hot tub wiring was installed exactly this way.)

If I find that I am a few feet short (this route may take more wire than the current route, will verify tomorrow), can I splice in extra wire in the attic and would that be permissible by code? What equipment (junction boxes/terminal strip/etc) would be necessary?

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Old 07-14-2013, 07:25 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by hades281 View Post
Is there any reason why this would not meet code? (A friend's hot tub wiring was installed exactly this way.)
Not sure; I would ask your inspector, he should be willing to let you know what does and does not meet code.
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Old 07-14-2013, 08:18 PM   #20
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Buried EMT - Hot tub installation


RENT A SMALL BACKHOE AND BURY IT RIGHT. Really, they're cheap and a lot less hassle than breaking your back with a pick axe through clay soil. This, I learned, having trying to dig out a bunch myself before bailing on the idea and renting one from Sunbelt.
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Old 07-14-2013, 09:53 PM   #21
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There are specific distances you must maintain concerning the disconnect and convenience receptacle. I must warn you that there are a number of specific codes governing the installation of hot tubs. It is NOT as easy as plopping down a tub and running some wires to it.
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:09 PM   #22
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Do the search of art 680 of NEC it do have very good section that cover the spa very well.

I do not know why you bury that conduit that shallow that depth is only allowed for 15/20 amp 120 volt GFCI protected circuit ONLY. anything else have to be buried 18 inches down.

The other thing is do not tempting to use the UF cable between the house and spa panel that is NOT even legit at all due the ground conductor is bare and the NEC code say it have to be insluated ground. so end of that conneries.

So read the NEC art 680 first before you do anymore work on this one.

Genrally Spa is not the best location for DIY to mess around ( some states may not allow homeowner do the hook up on the spa so don't be suprised if that state or local codes do require have electrician to do this.)

Merci,
Marc
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:29 PM   #23
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kbuz - Yes, I did respect the section of the code related to the disconnect panel distance. 680.12 requires it to be at least 5 feet away and within sight of the hot tub. The convenience outlet must be between 6 feet and 20 feet away from the hot tub. My disconnect panel has a provision for adding an outlet.

frenchelectrician - From what I can tell from the code, 680.10 states the minimum cover for metal raceways is 6 inches.
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Old 07-15-2013, 12:51 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by hades281 View Post
kbuz - Yes, I did respect the section of the code related to the disconnect panel distance. 680.12 requires it to be at least 5 feet away and within sight of the hot tub. The convenience outlet must be between 6 feet and 20 feet away from the hot tub. My disconnect panel has a provision for adding an outlet.

frenchelectrician - From what I can tell from the code, 680.10 states the minimum cover for metal raceways is 6 inches.
That part it will be fine as long it is covered with 4 inches of concrete of your spa pad but once it get outside of the concrete area then it will reinvert back to normal depth requirement which it is typically 18 inches and there is two verison of this code covered on that part.

Are you on '08 ou '11 NEC code cycle ? ( the quickest answer is what state you are in then we can dail in the final answer for it.)

And check the rest of art 680 espcally spa useage.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 07-15-2013, 01:50 PM   #25
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Frenchelectrician -- In an earlier post, I asked about running the THWN in the attic to the rear of the house. If I do this, I can prevent having to dig 70 feet of trench. I can drill a hole in the soffit, and one end of the conduit will effectively be in the eave/attic. The other end will go 18 inches down into the ground, and the remaining amount needing to be trenched will be dramatically reduced.

An earlier poster mentioned "getting a backhoe and doing it right," which I appreciate but there is no room between the houses for a backhoe. Further, my backyard gate is too narrow for an 18" trencher and the soil is rock hard, drought-stricken, Texas clay. I'm trying to operate within the boundaries of what I can practically accomplish and would like to DIY it for some cash savings (why come to a DIY board?).

I live in Texas and am referring to the 2008 edition of the NEC. I've been using Mike Holt's illustrated guide which helps with interpretation, and specifically did read 680 which gives the GFI, disconnect and convenience outlet requirements.

The hot tub company from which I purchased does the final electrical hookup. Many of their customers in my area according to them do the rest of the electrical work themselves as I am.

Frenchelectrician - Thanks for your good attitude and good help.

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Old 07-15-2013, 02:20 PM   #26
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Buried EMT - Hot tub installation


To run the thwn into the attic requires conduit from the panel to the hottub panel.

You can do that if you like.
Remember to check the code for derating in the hot attic.
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Old 07-15-2013, 09:28 PM   #27
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Here a link to helpful info regarding pool/hot tub installations:

http://www.mikeholt.com/files/PDF/Pooldownload.pdf
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:58 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hades281 View Post
Frenchelectrician -- In an earlier post, I asked about running the THWN in the attic to the rear of the house. If I do this, I can prevent having to dig 70 feet of trench. I can drill a hole in the soffit, and one end of the conduit will effectively be in the eave/attic. The other end will go 18 inches down into the ground, and the remaining amount needing to be trenched will be dramatically reduced.

You can run the conduit in the attic without isssue at all but just remember to run full four conductors. I know the PVC is pretty much common item to use in the attic due light weight and ease of installing it. but just becarefull some local codes may ask you to run shedule 80 PVC ( aka thickwall PVC conduit ) so just be aware with that.

An earlier poster mentioned "getting a backhoe and doing it right," which I appreciate but there is no room between the houses for a backhoe. Further, my backyard gate is too narrow for an 18" trencher and the soil is rock hard, drought-stricken, Texas clay. I'm trying to operate within the boundaries of what I can practically accomplish and would like to DIY it for some cash savings (why come to a DIY board?).

Why not rent a " power shovel " basically a semi modifed jackhammer with shovel attachment to speed up the progress you can able dig up hard clay soil pretty quick. or use standard concrete breaker that will work equally well. once you use that power tool that will really save alot of time et effort to do this.

I live in Texas and am referring to the 2008 edition of the NEC. I've been using Mike Holt's illustrated guide which helps with interpretation, and specifically did read 680 which gives the GFI, disconnect and convenience outlet requirements.

Fair engough as long you understand the '08 NEC code cycle very clear you should have no issue with it but if still have a question just go ahead and speak up quick before you start anything to cover all the bases.

The hot tub company from which I purchased does the final electrical hookup. Many of their customers in my area according to them do the rest of the electrical work themselves as I am.

That cool as long they are licensed to do that. I don't really see the issue. Just make sure you get the electrical infomation from them when you get the tub so can able sized the conductor properly which that will included derating in hot attic.

Frenchelectrician - Thanks for your good attitude and good help.

My reply in Bleu and that is not a problem at all.

Also before I forget anything else make sure you check the codes reguarding of equmepetal ( sp ) bonding which there will be a loop of copper conductor running around the spa area check that part out if that do apply to your situation and if not pour the concrete yet then it will be a good time to get a Ufer ground connecton aka rebar bonding on concrete that will work only if you have no plastique barrier below of the whole pad.


Bon Chance with your hottub.

Merci,
Marc

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