Breakers Warping - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-02-2013, 04:26 PM   #1
Member
 
seansy59's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NJ, US
Posts: 292
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Breakers warping


New panel. Fresh install by me in our shed 3 months ago. Temps have been 90*F lately. 120*F in shed. Is this normal to have them warping?

Bus bar aluminum.
Attached Images
 

Advertisement

seansy59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 04:33 PM   #2
Electrical Contractor
 
Philly Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SE PA
Posts: 1,138
Rewards Points: 502
Default

Breakers warping


don't see it ???

Advertisement

__________________
Philadelphia Master Electrician-Generac Dealer
Philly Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 04:36 PM   #3
Member
 
seansy59's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NJ, US
Posts: 292
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Breakers warping


I'm sorry...its kinda hard to see it in the pic. In person its very clear.

But the breakers on the left side are starting to all push downward, and bending crookedly to the right.

If I take the cover off, they almost warp down a whole inch. The aluminum is very soft...
seansy59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 05:11 PM   #4
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 14,420
Rewards Points: 2,502
Default

Breakers warping


Need to get rid of that panel, if the bus bar is warping because of the heat, along with putting in some venting to cool that shed off. 120 is too high.
__________________
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 05:19 PM   #5
Member
 
seansy59's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NJ, US
Posts: 292
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Breakers warping


Thanks. I'll be replacing the panel with a copper bus one. Probably an Eaton one...

The windows are open all the time with fans in the windows...not much I can do past that. Its a 12x15 shed with a peaked roof and vent too. If the windows were closed it would've hit 140*F....
Attached Images
 
seansy59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 05:25 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Indiana (USA)
Posts: 1,318
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Breakers warping


Are the breakers c0ompletely seated on the bus? Take the cover off, and see if that makes a difference, and check for proper seating.

SquareDs are pretty good products.
__________________
Installation is the Reverse of Removal.
sirsparksalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 05:28 PM   #7
Member
 
seansy59's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NJ, US
Posts: 292
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Breakers warping


Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsparksalot View Post
Are the breakers c0ompletely seated on the bus? Take the cover off, and see if that makes a difference, and check for proper seating.

SquareDs are pretty good products.
They are seated pretty well. But each slot on the bus bar is extremely flexible (therefore why the breakers are "warping"). Sure they are a great company, but I'm sure anything aluminum will have its problems. Its expands and contracts severely in the heat and cold...
seansy59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 05:31 PM   #8
Licensed electrician
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 8,033
Rewards Points: 2,864
Default

Breakers warping


Aluminum should not be softening at a temperature that low.
__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.
Jim Port is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jim Port For This Useful Post:
jbfan (06-02-2013), sirsparksalot (06-02-2013)
Old 06-02-2013, 05:39 PM   #9
Member
 
seansy59's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NJ, US
Posts: 292
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Breakers warping


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Aluminum should not be softening at a temperature that low.
Is it possible I got a lemon panel?
I've never even peaked above 10 amps out of the 30 amp service either yet..
seansy59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 06:01 PM   #10
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 14,420
Rewards Points: 2,502
Default

Breakers warping


What are you using that shed for? You need better venting in that shed. I would look at placing some intake vents low, so that air gets drawn in, and up through the roof vents. Aluminum can soften over time, especially with the heat from the space, and depending on the load that is being placed on it.

Take a reading with the Dead front off, with a IR gun, and show what the readings are of the bus and breakers.
__________________
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 06:12 PM   #11
Member
 
seansy59's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NJ, US
Posts: 292
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Breakers warping


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
What are you using that shed for? You need better venting in that shed. I would look at placing some intake vents low, so that air gets drawn in, and up through the roof vents. Aluminum can soften over time, especially with the heat from the space, and depending on the load that is being placed on it.

Take a reading with the Dead front off, with a IR gun, and show what the readings are of the bus and breakers.
Have nowhere to install the vents though. Rather not have to cut into the roof and make holes that can end up leaking.

The shed is used for part storage/pool shed/workshop. It has a heat vent at the very peak. [2] 20" box fans are in the windows pulling air in one window and out the other all day. When the weather is hot, I open up the double doors.

The one thing that does happen is the sun beats on the same wall the panel is on for 10 hours straight every day. I put a wireless thermometer in the panel, put the cover back on, and temps hit 155*F inside the panel Same loads during cooler days do not have/add any heat at all in the panel. All connections are tight and cold....

Nothing heavy is ever run in there during the summer except for a few lights, small pool pump, fans, stereo, and the occasional power tool.

I do not have an IR gun...
seansy59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 06:23 PM   #12
Remodel and New Build GC
 
MTN REMODEL LLC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Colorado @ 7651'
Posts: 2,976
Rewards Points: 2,222
Default

Breakers warping


I never heard of having to "derate a panel".

Curiosity, does a panel have a temperature range spec??? I never looked... but I've never been around those temperatures.

Any Sparky's from Las Vegas or Arizona around??

Who;s panel is it?
__________________
Never stop learning (xcep fer speling en typeing)

Last edited by MTN REMODEL LLC; 06-02-2013 at 06:26 PM.
MTN REMODEL LLC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 06:27 PM   #13
Retired from the grind
 
gregzoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Midwest - Central Illinois
Posts: 14,420
Rewards Points: 2,502
Default

Breakers warping


You have no choice but to install vents along the bottom, along with on the roof. Otherwise, you are in for a real disaster there, especially if you are storing pool chemicals and other things.

Running those fans in there 24/7 is a call waiting to happen, for the guys & gals on the nice pretty Red or Yellow truck to show up, to put out the fire.
__________________
Ren: Now listen, Cadet. I've got a job for you. See this button? Ren: Don't touch it! It's the History Eraser button, you fool! Stimpy: So what'll happen? Ren: That's just it. We don't know. Maybe something bad, maybe something good. I guess we'll never know, 'cause you're going to guard it. You won't touch it, will you?
gregzoll is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 06:44 PM   #14
Member
 
seansy59's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NJ, US
Posts: 292
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Breakers warping


Quote:
Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
You have no choice but to install vents along the bottom, along with on the roof. Otherwise, you are in for a real disaster there, especially if you are storing pool chemicals and other things.

Running those fans in there 24/7 is a call waiting to happen, for the guys & gals on the nice pretty Red or Yellow truck to show up, to put out the fire.
No chemicals. Just a few toys, cover, and hoses.

The fans are just hanging up there on 2 nails. They are removed when it rains or when the weather is cooler. Unless you know of a window fan that can be mounted and removed for a 17" window, I'm stuck with these. I've looked everywhere. Having the fans running keep it down to 10 degrees warmer than the outside temp.

Vents still won't happen. I'm not cutting holes everywhere in the roof and walls. Its a battle trying to keep water out of the place already with driving rains in my area. A world supply of caulk wouldn't help...not to mention how horrid it would look on the outside...I dont want it to start to look like an industrial building on the outside.

Btw: Did I mention I have a fire alarm installed? :P
Attached Images
 
seansy59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2013, 06:53 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Hartfield VA
Posts: 27,774
Rewards Points: 664
Default

Breakers warping


Your very mistaken.
You need a ridge vent on that roof, and some soffit vents.
You already have an open in the top of the roof for them.
This is what a ridge vent looks like.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...electedIndex=1

All the heats that needs to be vented is trapped at the peak of the roof.
Window fans are usless.
With the proper venting it would add 5 years to the shingles.
Ridge vents do not use any form of caulking.

Advertisement

__________________
When posting in forums, letting us know your location will help others give better feedback/advice/solutions to your questions
joecaption is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wiring Generator to Backfeed Breakers - Neutral and Ground Wires? tjnoff Electrical 84 12-09-2014 09:59 PM
Arcing between circuit breakers and flickering lights mscotter Electrical 12 07-13-2012 01:46 AM
GE Panel - Breakers - Tandem or Slim? TBrown1 Electrical 12 06-05-2012 08:42 PM
breakers compatible with panel--HD says... Daneel Electrical 6 06-10-2011 07:31 PM
Can I get AFCI breakers for my panel? BlueBSH Electrical 21 08-04-2010 08:07 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts