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Old 02-04-2012, 10:22 AM   #1
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Bonding : Gas line


I have a propane line here that basically just feeds two log lighters, but I don't see any kind of bonding wire to it. It's supposed to have a bonding wire, right?

It's on the complete opposite end of the house from the panel. What's the proper way to do this?

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Old 02-04-2012, 01:14 PM   #2
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Bonding : Gas line


Do the logs have an electric supply? It could be bonded at the logs. If not, bond it to your water pipes if they're metal. Barring that, cut into a nearby circuit, and connect the wires together along with your bonding wire inside a junction box.

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Old 02-04-2012, 03:28 PM   #3
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Any electrical or mechanical code citations for your methods?
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Old 02-04-2012, 09:27 PM   #4
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No, there is no electric anything there. It's simply a propane starter for a fireplace. You light a piece of paper in there, turn on the gas and poof away it goes. Once the logs are lit, you shut off the gas.

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Old 02-04-2012, 11:15 PM   #5
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Only time we have had to bond gas lines are. If there is more than 6ft of flexible gas line, then #6-8 thhn back to the panel ground bar.
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Old 02-04-2012, 11:46 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt151617 View Post
Do the logs have an electric supply? It could be bonded at the logs. If not, bond it to your water pipes if they're metal. Barring that, cut into a nearby circuit, and connect the wires together along with your bonding wire inside a junction box.
That does not comply with the NEC.
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Old 02-05-2012, 01:40 AM   #7
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would you guys consider it OK to bond CSST to a subpanel using #6. Assume subpanel is fed from main panel by at least a #6 gc.

(i have a problem where a new ground rod was driven to ground a new CSST installation...ground rod is not bonded to the other rods in the system (over 100ft away)).

there is a 125 amp sub panel (fed by 125a breaker in MP) about 40-50 ft away, and it seems that removing the bond to the new ground rod (and beating it a couple of inches underground) and running the #6 to the sub panel would be fine, but I cant find anything that says it is fine. sub has #6 ground conductor from main panel
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Old 02-05-2012, 10:09 AM   #8
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there is a 125 amp sub panel (fed by 125a breaker in MP) about 40-50 ft away, and it seems that removing the bond to the new ground rod (and beating it a couple of inches underground) and running the #6 to the sub panel would be fine, but I cant find anything that says it is fine. sub has #6 ground conductor from main panel
Keep the bond to the new ground rod and also run #6 from that ground rod to another existing ground rod for the same building. Should it first reach a #6 ground wire (grounding electrode conductor) already coming from a ground rod, it (now also a GEC) may be clamped on there.

With a ground rod (and related subpanel) in a different building, just the ground wire accompanying the subpanel feed wires is sufficient for bonding to the main system. This ground wire (equipment grounding conductor) is sized for the feed wires and might be smaller than #6.

If a log lighters is hard wired (not cord and plug connected) to the electrical system with ground wires (EGC) then no additional bonding of the gas pipes is needed.
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Last edited by AllanJ; 02-05-2012 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 02-05-2012, 11:56 AM   #9
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Quote:
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If a log lighters is hard wired (not cord and plug connected) to the electrical system with ground wires (EGC) then no additional bonding of the gas pipes is needed.
Except with CSST. Pretty much every CSST manufacturer requires that their product be bonded at the entrance (or first use of) in the building. Before the bonding requirements, CSST had some problems where a nearby lightning strike would put an extreme voltage on the pipe. It would then arc to any metal the pipe went by. The arc would simultaneously create a small hole in the CSST and provide a nice heat source for lighting the gas inside.


To the original poster Alan, the NEC (250.104(B)) only requires gas pipes to be bonded if they're likely to get energized. Additionally, you only need to bond at one location. So check to see if you have a bond from your main panel to just after your meter, or at your water heater if you have a gas heater. If you don't have a bond, those two locations are good places to put it due to the minimal amount of wire needed.
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Old 02-05-2012, 12:03 PM   #10
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To the original poster Alan, the NEC (250.104(B)) only requires gas pipes to be bonded if they're likely to get energized. Additionally, you only need to bond at one location. So check to see if you have a bond from your main panel to just after your meter, or at your water heater if you have a gas heater. If you don't have a bond, those two locations are good places to put it due to the minimal amount of wire needed.
In my case I don't think that it is going to be an issue then. Just out of curiosity, what circumstances would they NEC consider the gas line "likely to get energized" ?

What if I were to add an electronic igniter to the log lighter?
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Keep the bond to the new ground rod and also run #6 from that ground rod to another existing ground rod for the same building. Should it first reach a #6 ground wire (grounding electrode conductor) already coming from a ground rod, it (now also a GEC) may be clamped on there.

With a ground rod (and related subpanel) in a different building, just the ground wire accompanying the subpanel feed wires is sufficient for bonding to the main system. This ground wire (equipment grounding conductor) is sized for the feed wires and might be smaller than #6.

If a log lighters is hard wired (not cord and plug connected) to the electrical system with ground wires (EGC) then no additional bonding of the gas pipes is needed.

The electrical service and gas service are on diagonally opposite ends of a very large house (would be ~150 feet away as bird flies, much more through appropriate attic run).

There is a subpanel (still in the main house) about 30 feet away from the CSST entrance...that panel is definitely fed by a #6 ground so that is why I was planning on running the #6 ground from the CSST(ground rod) to the subpanel (which would be #6 back to the 1st service disconnect, which is then bonded to the ground rods, all at least #6 throughout entire path).

Sounds like this is the way to go? both ground rods would then be bonded together, and the csst has a #6 path to both rods, and the world is at peace, no?
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:23 PM   #12
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Bonding : Gas line


@Alan,
"Likely to be energized" is as subjective and completely up to the inspector. I know mine just wants all gas lines bonded period. If you don't have any wiring near any part of the gas run, then you could probably argue that it's not likely to become energized. But who knows what someone might add in the future. I see it as a prudent safety precaution to take.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:58 PM   #13
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@Alan,
"Likely to be energized" is as subjective and completely up to the inspector. I know mine just wants all gas lines bonded period. If you don't have any wiring near any part of the gas run, then you could probably argue that it's not likely to become energized. But who knows what someone might add in the future. I see it as a prudent safety precaution to take.
Thanks for the input. Seeing as how I have the panel open now. . . . . what size wire do i need to run, and I just need to connect it to the ground bar at the panel, right?

This is a propane line by the way, not natural gas......
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Old 02-07-2012, 09:15 PM   #14
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Bonding : Gas line


You're supposed to use Table 250.122 to size the bonding jumper for the maximum size circuit that is likely to energize the pipes. To be safe, I'd size it to match the size of your service. Here's a bit from Table 250.122

Code:
Amps  Copper  Aluminium
 15   14      12
 20   12      10
 60   10       8
100    8       6
200    6       4
300    4       2
400    3       1

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