Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-15-2008, 03:27 PM   #16
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,864
Rewards Points: 2,032
Default

Bathroom circuits tripping repeatedly


Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarlisle View Post
Speedy Petey:

OMG. I hope you're kidding me in telling me that, in the US, an licensed electrician - upon seeing something he is working on NOT up to code - will ignore that fault and continue on with his work, knowing full well it is not up to code, then finish his work, get paid and leave???

You have got to be kidding. I don't really think that would be the case; I have known plenty of electricians who by obligation MUST bring what they are working up to code. How can you possibly defend someone who is asked to replace, say, a GFI plug, who notices that the wiring connecting the plug to the panel, or the breaker on the panel, or something else is substandard, but who only replaces the GFI plug - and walks away?

Who is the supposed 'professional'? What would happen if the day after this electrician left the house, there was a major fire caused by that very same wiring? who'd end up in court in your litigious justice system?

Please tell me I've misunderstood you, or the ethics code of your country, or the electricians union -or something- just don't tell me a professional would sign his name to that type of work.

I am not saying an electrician who comes in to install a ceiling fan has to rewire the whole house - but I would hope that any electrician who goes out on a job, sees something is not to code, would either inform the homeowner of the fact and/or explain why he can not complete the job unless it is brought up to code. Now if that rewiring the whole house, then present that evidence and an estimate for doing it.

Otherwise, professional ethics, including integrity, mean nothing.

I'm all ears, Speedy, to listen to how you defend that position.
OK. Are you calmed down now????
You are jumping to a conclusion about what I wrote based on what YOU wrote.

READ what YOU wrote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccarlisle View Post
If an electrician comes in and sees something not to code, it is his responsibility to bring the whole thing up to code and that may mean new wiring and new circuits, new plugs and new breakers. But whatever it takes and whatever it costs, it's cheaper that what could happen if you ignore it for longer.
THIS is what you said. You DID NOT say what he was working on. You simply said "....if he sees something...". BIG difference my friend.


Also, no,he is NOT legally obliged to repair or replace anything he is not asked to.
Yes, any self respecting electrician will strongly encourage a client to replace something that might be dangerous, but there is no legal recourse to enforce this. HOW could there be??????






Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbie View Post
Clarifying yourself helped. There is a difference between up to code and unsafe. As an electrician I am not required to bring everything I may be working on up to code. IF I see something that is unsafe I will bring it to the homeowners attention and fix if authorized.. if not then the installation will stop at that point if it affects what I'm working on.
Precisely!

__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2008, 03:29 PM   #17
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,864
Rewards Points: 2,032
Default

Bathroom circuits tripping repeatedly


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyizit View Post
I think a loose connection at the circuit breaker could cause heating that can trip the breaker over a long period of time.
And this has to do with what, how??????
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2008, 03:33 PM   #18
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NW of D.C.
Posts: 5,990
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Bathroom circuits tripping repeatedly


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
And this has to do with what, how??????

Bathroom circuits tripping repeatedly
Yoyizit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2008, 03:49 PM   #19
Member
 
ccarlisle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,889
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Bathroom circuits tripping repeatedly


Speedy:

You're obviously a master of the one-line answers but when you replied to me "100% NOT TRUE", even that's an overstatement isn't it? You just validated my point; the electrician has to bring what he's working on up to code, so my statement is partly true isn't it.

Don't patronize.
ccarlisle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2008, 04:16 PM   #20
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,864
Rewards Points: 2,032
Default

Bathroom circuits tripping repeatedly


Whatever. I replied to what you wrote. Simple as that.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2008, 04:17 PM   #21
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,864
Rewards Points: 2,032
Default

Bathroom circuits tripping repeatedly


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyizit View Post
Bathroom circuits tripping repeatedly
OK, in the context of your last post it seemed irrelevant.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2008, 04:42 PM   #22
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: NW of D.C.
Posts: 5,990
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Bathroom circuits tripping repeatedly


I agree; it was kind of out of the blue.

Last edited by Yoyizit; 07-15-2008 at 04:46 PM.
Yoyizit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2008, 05:03 PM   #23
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,041
Rewards Points: 2,052
Default

Bathroom circuits tripping repeatedly


Quote:
You just validated my point; the electrician has to bring what he's working on up to code,
No he does not have to bring everything he is working on up to current code.

Can you give an example of what you mean...your statement is way too broad.


If I come into your kitchen to replace a receptacle I do not have to bring the branch circuit up to code, I simply replace the receptacle. There is no code to bring it up to unless it should be gfci and isn't. If what I'm working on was installed and acceptable at the time I am under no obligation to bring it up to current codes.

It is possible that you are using 'code' in the wrong context or I am misunderstanding your statements intention.

I'm sorry if this isn't what you want to hear....it is no different in Canada

Last edited by Stubbie; 07-15-2008 at 05:12 PM.
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2008, 07:20 PM   #24
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 308
Rewards Points: 250
Default

Bathroom circuits tripping repeatedly


While you guys were arguing about the obligations of an electrician, it looks as though the OP got lost.
Did he/she ever answer the question of whether or not the breaker is a GFCI?
I would bet that it is, and something in the circuit is leaking current to ground.
Water getting into the wall/floor causing a path to ground? Since the problem has been getting worse over time, i would certainly suspect something like this.

If it is not a GFCI, then the trouble could be far worse, in that some very heavy current is flowing in the circuit, undetected. An arc-fault?

I agree on the need for an electrician, but it would be interesting to see what the problem turns out to be.

FW
fw2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2008, 07:39 PM   #25
Member
 
ccarlisle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Posts: 1,889
Rewards Points: 1,000
Default

Bathroom circuits tripping repeatedly


OK, OK... look, I've put in my 2 cents into this thread and I'm not doing anyone any favours by prolonging it for the sake of semantics. You guys are the pros and I am sorry if I have used the wrong terminology. And maybe I don't have a specific example on the tip of my fingers to demonstrate what, to me, seems clear.

The point I was trying to make is that, in several fields, a 'professional', a 'licence holder', a 'master', a 'certified' pro - call him what you want - is seen to have knowledge that, for example, a homeowner does not have and therefore is in a position to correct what is wrong, unsafe, out of code, dangerous - call it what you will. When I am called in as a professional, and I see something close to the area I am working on that violates something (whether it's code, or safety), I would be negligent in my responsibility as a professional if I were to ignore it. I might not be authorized to fix it and I may have to stop work. But I am obliged to describe it and bring it to the attention of the homeowner if ONLY to save my butt in case I get sued.

I work in the area of water damage restoration - and know what? this field is currently the most litigious field right now in the US...more case of court action are going through your system than any other field! People are suing their uncles if they find negligence in the simple remediation of a flood.

It has even been documented that a lowly carpet cleaner is being sued for $4m because he didn't clean a carpet properly, mold started to grow, the 2-yr old daughter got sick and ended up in hospital. Oh sure, the insurance company was too and so was the water damage company who oversaw the work. But that has heightened many peoples' awareness to what is the responsibility of he who is in a position of knowledge and trust viz: in this case the carpet cleaner...

It's no good turning a blind eye to something that is not right. Site code books, local regulations, company policy as much as you want - but at the end of the day, you are the one who knows and therefore you are the one responsible.

Don't split hairs with me on this; you know it and I know it. You may think you can duck behind a book or trip someone up on a bb with self-serving rhetoric - but a judge will most likely throw the book at you if you failed to apply your knowledge to the situation - regardless of the fact that you were paid to do it or not or if it was what you were 'working on'.

And yes, Stubbie, I understand you; doesn't make a difference if it's what I want to hear - that never entered into it. And yes it's the same up here except we don't quite go to court as much as perhaps your judicial system allows you to. But society is coming to that, here and elsewhere so it behooves the pros to cover their backsides.

I appreciated this exchange; no hard feeling here!

ccarlisle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wiring in New Addition? sandyman720 Electrical 6 11-27-2011 03:34 PM
Need a wiring diagram Mooreski Electrical 46 03-12-2011 03:25 PM
Basement Bathroom Circuit design drtpdee Electrical 6 01-03-2008 10:10 AM
Tripping Circuits Billy74 Electrical 3 05-29-2007 05:06 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.