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Old 11-29-2009, 11:59 AM   #1
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Basic wire needs for replacing my AL branch wiring


Getting ready to take on a project to add a new subpanel off of my existing panel, add some circuits, and start replacing the AL branch wiring in my 1500 sq ft house. This is what I was planning to pick up for wire/cable/etc to start with, and was wondering if anyone can tell me if I'm missing anything obvious. This is just based on the local box store sizing. I'll compare with an electrical supplier before I actually purchase.

200 AMP/42 slot main breaker/main lug convertible panel
- running as a sub for now, but will eventually convert the service to 200 and make this the main service panel.

1000' spool of 14/2 for lights
1000' spool of 12/2 for recepts
250' 14/3 for smokes
250' 12/3 for kitchen recepts
500' 12 ga solid THHN - black
500' 12 ga solid THHN - white
500' 12 ga solid THHN - green

The THHN is for some 1/2" EMT that I'll be running in the garage and basement. I won't need nearly that much, but it's cost prohibitive to buy by the foot at the box stores.

Anything that I've missed (other than boxes, switches, etc)? All of the "big" items (furnace, water heater, etc) have been replaced within the past 10-15 years and seem to have been switched to copper as they were replaced.

I will have this all permitted and inspected, etc.

Thanks,

Mike

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Old 11-29-2009, 12:20 PM   #2
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Basic wire needs for replacing my AL branch wiring


You may find it cheaper to install a main breaker panel instead of the convertible panel.

I would advise against trying to use the 12-3 for the kitchen receptacles. Shared neutrals and GFIs don't play well together. just run 2 runs of 12-2 the the countertop circuits instead.

Pickup an auxillary ground bar kit for your grounds.

You have not mentioned the feeder cable or breaker to feed the new panel.

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Old 11-29-2009, 12:22 PM   #3
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Basic wire needs for replacing my AL branch wiring


I wouldn't use 12/3 for my kitchen recps. I hate trouble shooting this kind of install because somebody will have for got to break a tab, Also the shared netural can cause phantom tripping of GFCI's if not installed real careful.

Instead to fulfill the requirement of two 20a countertop circuts in the kitchen I recommend running two 12/2 romex cables all the way from the panel. And putting for example all of the plugs to the left of the sink on one, and all plugs on right another. Or what ever way is best to split the plugs up.

Don't forget staples, Ground screws and wirenuts

And so it goes, R
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Old 11-29-2009, 12:23 PM   #4
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And so it goes, R
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Old 11-29-2009, 12:59 PM   #5
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Basic wire needs for replacing my AL branch wiring


Don't forget the drywall screws, 1x4 backing and 20 minute mud for all the cuts/patches





PS. That's a LOT of romex for a 1500' house.
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Old 11-29-2009, 01:07 PM   #6
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Basic wire needs for replacing my AL branch wiring


2008 code no shared nuetrals dont forget pigtailing all nuetrals in kitche garbage disposel and dishwasher cannot be hooked to two dedicated kitchen circuits 2008 code almost everything in house is arc fault if not gfic if your jurisdiction has accepted arcfaults and all cicuits in bedrooms must be arcfault including lights and smoke detectors getting more complicated all the time
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Old 11-29-2009, 01:24 PM   #7
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2008 code no shared nuetrals
Could you please supply the Code Article that prevents this?
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Old 11-29-2009, 01:59 PM   #8
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Basic wire needs for replacing my AL branch wiring


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Could you please supply the Code Article that prevents this?
I'd second this. We're on 2005 code currently, but see no reason not to use 2008 code if it's applicable. Other than the kitchen (which I'll happily not do as it'll save me from buying the 12/3), the only other shared neutrals I had planned were the garage and basement circuits in the EMT, so I can just as easily pull a second white for each.

Mike
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Old 11-29-2009, 02:03 PM   #9
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Basic wire needs for replacing my AL branch wiring


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Originally Posted by skidrowpete View Post
2008 code no shared nuetrals dont forget pigtailing all nuetrals in kitche garbage disposel and dishwasher cannot be hooked to two dedicated kitchen circuits 20 08 code almost everything in house is arc fault if not gfic if your jurisdiction has accepted arcfaults and all cicuits in bedrooms must be arcfault including lights and smoke detectors getting more complicated all the time
In addition to the 2 counter circuits, I plan to run dedicated circuits for the DW, Disposal, microwave (in a cabinet), and probably fridge.

Also planned for AFCIs for all of the bedrooms, and a room in the basement that could be used as a bedroom by the next owner (assuming they want to install an egress window). Waiting to hear from my inspector regarding the AFCIs for the smokes, because I know that seems to be a local decision.
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Old 11-29-2009, 02:08 PM   #10
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Basic wire needs for replacing my AL branch wiring


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Don't forget the drywall screws, 1x4 backing and 20 minute mud for all the cuts/patches





PS. That's a LOT of romex for a 1500' house.
Agree, it's probably way too much. I'm open to suggestions for cuts as well as additions.. ;-) I figured that a 1000' spool would be easier to work with than a bunch of 250' rolls, but willing to be told differently on that as well. :-)

Fortunately I've got either direct access and/or above or below access to most everything in the house with the exception to the garage, which is getting the EMT, so am hoping to minimize the number of repairs that need to be done in the "habitable" part of the house.
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Old 11-29-2009, 02:13 PM   #11
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Basic wire needs for replacing my AL branch wiring


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You may find it cheaper to install a main breaker panel instead of the convertible panel.

I would advise against trying to use the 12-3 for the kitchen receptacles. Shared neutrals and GFIs don't play well together. just run 2 runs of 12-2 the the countertop circuits instead.

Pickup an auxillary ground bar kit for your grounds.

You have not mentioned the feeder cable or breaker to feed the new panel.
Sorry, I didn't mention the feeder or ground bar. I had assumed those, but probably should have listed them. I think I've actually got the feeder cable already from the old double GFI/hot tub breaker that I'm taking out to replace with the feeder for the new panel. I'll probably feed the sub with a double 60, and need to check the size on the cable. I think it's #6, but otherwise, I'll probably pick up 10' of #4 (cable or wires) for a feeder.
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Old 11-29-2009, 02:48 PM   #12
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Basic wire needs for replacing my AL branch wiring


Quote:
Originally Posted by skidrowpete View Post
2008 code no shared nuetrals dont forget pigtailing all nuetrals in kitche garbage disposel and dishwasher cannot be hooked to two dedicated kitchen circuits 2008 code almost everything in house is arc fault if not gfic if your jurisdiction has accepted arcfaults and all cicuits in bedrooms must be arcfault including lights and smoke detectors getting more complicated all the time
The 2008 NEC requires a period at the end of each sentence. Anyway, I believe the only change in 2008 is the requirement of simultaneously disconnecting all ungrounded conductors of all multiwire branch circuits

Last edited by jerryh3; 11-29-2009 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 11-29-2009, 03:11 PM   #13
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Basic wire needs for replacing my AL branch wiring


Quote:
I figured that a 1000' spool would be easier to work with than a bunch of 250' rolls, but willing to be told differently on that as well. :-)
Just go with the 250' rolls and take back what you don't open. Just uncoil the cable or build a simple spinner.

In my professional opinion, splitting up lights and receps is a waste of material and labor.

If you have access from below, the receps and switches on exterior walls will be much easier to access than the slab houses out here.

If you have plastc nailed on boxes it will be pretty easy to pull them and fish in the new wiring.



Quote:
2008 code no shared nuetrals dont forget pigtailing all nuetrals in kitchen



Quote:
The 2008 NEC requires periods at the end of each sentence
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:15 AM   #14
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Basic wire needs for replacing my AL branch wiring


Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryh3 View Post
I believe the only change in 2008 is the requirement of simultaneously disconnecting all ungrounded conductors of all multiwire branch circuits

Correct that is the only major change to multiwire circuts. Also required is that they be grouped. tho with Romex this is not a problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skidrowpete View Post
2008 code no shared nuetrals

This is not a code requirement. Tho you will need to keep all nuetrals from AFCI's, and GFCI's seperate to and from each said device.


And so it goes, R
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Old 11-30-2009, 01:18 AM   #15
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Basic wire needs for replacing my AL branch wiring


Also from experience to avoid nussance tripping of AFCI's, and GFCI's, don't splice neutrals of different circuts together. ie. if two circuts are in one box be sure to maintain their neutrals seperate.


And so it goes, R

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