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Old 01-10-2009, 09:17 AM   #1
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basement wet bar


Hello everyone,

I've been searching for this answer and not getting a consistant one so here goes.

I have a basement circuit that is 12/2 wire with a 20 amp breaker it feeds 9 recipticals which 7 are in the living room portion of the basement. The other 2 are located in the wet bar part of the basement all are GFCI protected. One of those is for the counter top and the other is for a under the counter fridge. All lighting is on its own seperate circuit. I also have a seperate 12/2 20 amp breaker circuit for the mircowave in the wet bar. Wet bar has a sink, mircowave, under the counter fridge.

Here are the questions.

1) Am I okay with the two outlets in the wet bar area being on the same circuit as the living room area or do they need to be seperate?

2) I have GFCI outlet in the start of the run of outlets so everything down from it is also protected. Is it redundent to have the outlet on the counter top also be an GFCI outlet even though it is protected being part of the run?

I appeciate the help guys!


Last edited by jeerme; 01-10-2009 at 09:21 AM.
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Old 01-10-2009, 10:31 AM   #2
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basement wet bar


Since yo hav a microwave the wet bar has cooking facilities. It could be considered a kitchen and require two separate 20 GFCI counter circuits.
Post your location. Rules are different in Canada.

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Old 01-10-2009, 10:50 AM   #3
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Since yo hav a microwave the wet bar has cooking facilities. It could be considered a kitchen and require two separate 20 GFCI counter circuits.
Post your location. Rules are different in Canada.
A microwave does not count as permanent cooking facilities.
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Old 01-10-2009, 12:33 PM   #4
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The counter is only 6' wide so this is not a big area. By the way I'm not in
Canada.
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Old 01-10-2009, 01:44 PM   #5
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The counter is only 6' wide so this is not a big area. By the way I'm not in
Canada.
I would supply the receptacles with the ability to handle the load you think you will have at the bar.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:13 PM   #6
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I would supply the receptacles with the ability to handle the load you think you will have at the bar.

I think load wise I'm fine I just didn't know if it made sense and was up to code to do it all as one.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:13 PM   #7
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you are fine. And the basement wet bar is not considered a kitchen. You must have a stove to make it a kitchen
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:43 PM   #8
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You guys are making interpretations of the code that may not be the same as the interpretation of the OP's building official. A stove is not required to make it a kitchen. A cooking appliance is. A microwave is in fact a cooking appliance, and many are permanently mounted (the code doesn't care if it is permanent or not). A basement wet bar with cooking appliances for food prep is often interpreted to require the same countertop electrical requirements as a kitchen.
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Old 01-10-2009, 05:03 PM   #9
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You guys are making interpretations of the code that may not be the same as the interpretation of the OP's building official. A stove is not required to make it a kitchen. A cooking appliance is. A microwave is in fact a cooking appliance, and many are permanently mounted (the code doesn't care if it is permanent or not). A basement wet bar with cooking appliances for food prep is often interpreted to require the same countertop electrical requirements as a kitchen.

I disagree... 100%.
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Old 01-10-2009, 06:36 PM   #10
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I disagree... 100%.
On what basis? Code? Just because a bar area isn't the home's primary kitchen does not mean that it cannot meet the criteria to be considered a kitchen.

Per the IRC's definitions chapter:
Kitchen. Kitchen shall mean an area used, or designated to be used, for the preparation of food.

There's not a definition for wet bar unfortunately.

I don't know anybody that installs microwaves, ovens, and cooktops in their basement wet bar area to make drinks.
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:05 PM   #11
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I don't know anybody that installs microwaves, ovens, and cooktops in their basement wet bar area to make drinks.
Cooktops and ovens are one thing, but a portable microwave or toaster oven? I can see both points, but if I have a microwave on my bar so we can cook pizza rolls while we shoot pool, is it really a "food prep area"?

I guess it is really a judgment call for the AHJ, but it would make little sense to require a 5 ft bar to have two SABCs.
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:11 PM   #12
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Well if it helps the microwave will be sitting on a shelf not permantly mounted.

Other than a blender at times and the undercounter fridge that is all that would be plugged in.
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:14 PM   #13
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I guess it is really a judgment call for the AHJ, but it would make little sense to require a 5 ft bar to have two SABCs.
No it wouldn't. A microwave would use one. Then anything else like a toaster oven, coffee pot, tea kettle or blender would use the other one.
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:20 PM   #14
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No it wouldn't. A microwave would use one. Then anything else like a toaster oven, coffee pot, tea kettle or blender would use the other one.
I said require. It wouldn't hurt to have 2, but to require it would be overkill, in my opinion. How many people will have the MW fired up, the coffee pot on while making toast, and blending margaritas while frying pork chops on the electric griddle? My bar sink has one 20 A GFI circuit with two receptacles. The fridge is on its own circuit. I have never had a problem, and we throw some knee-walking drunks!
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Old 01-10-2009, 07:46 PM   #15
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so would it be better to have the fridge and counter outlets together on thier own circuit? Then with the mirco on its own. thus have the 2 20 amp circuits?

or the miro, fridge, counter on one and the rest of the living area on its own?


Last edited by jeerme; 01-10-2009 at 07:57 PM.
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