DIY Home Improvement Forum banner

Basement Remodel

7K views 48 replies 9 participants last post by  jrclen 
#1 ·
So, i have finished all the framing for the basement and I am ready to start the Electrical. I had an Electrician come out and he wants to charge 1700 to put in the wires and outlets. He also said that there has to be so many outlets per wall. Is this true? if so what is the requirement. Also i just want to make sure I got the right wire. Can someone help me by telling me what type of wire i need?

Thanks for your help.

The most recent Noob:)
 
#2 ·
There's a book... not really a book... much smaller... much more easier. Each page is laminated and ring bound at the top. They sell them al Home depot called "Code Book"... and has a book on each - PLumbing, electrical, etc.

For homeowners... it's great.... easy to understand.
It was helpful for me to know the same kind of questions you have, such as how many outlets per wall... wall against counter space... ACFI or GFCI, etc. I no electrician... and my inspection passed.

Also, don;t be afraid to just ask your building inspector if you have any other qustions.

Keep in mind there might be some national code change requirement around the use of AFCI. I think July 2008 is the cut off.
 
#4 ·
I would go with 12/2 w/ ground on the wiring job its good for 20amps. I also would use the plastic nail on boxes for the plugs/switches. Little cheaper with those and easier since they already have to nails attached.

I don't know of a required number of plugs per wall. To my knowledge there isn't one UNLESS its a local code thing. But I doubt it.

Is the breaker panel close? Are you having to run another panel? If so that might be where some of the costs is. Im sure some of the others will chime in on this one. BUT they will tell you 12/2 with ground. Its the norm for plugs and so forth. Hope this helps.
 
#5 ·
So the panel is in the garage which is two car widths and 1 floor away so i will be putting in another panel. (or attempting to). If anyone could help with explanations for that it would be great. I can wire everything from the panel to the outlets/switches but getting the power to the panel is where i would need some suggestions. anyone have any clues?
 
#6 ·
i can tell ya its a job lol. I just completed a job on the shed i built (12x30) that is 25 feet from my house. That #3 kicked my AZZ let me tell ya. But in your situation, kinda need to know how many amps your going to be needing to run all your power needs. What all will you be powering up down there. How many circuits are you wanting?

You will also have to install GFI's as well in the basement. I put mine at the beginning of each run of receptacles and fed 5-6 plugs off each GFI.

Make that info available and this forum can lend a hand. They sure helped me beyond words.
 
#7 ·
i can tell ya its a job lol. I just completed a job on the shed i built (12x30) that is 25 feet from my house. That #3 kicked my AZZ let me tell ya. But in your situation, kinda need to know how many amps your going to be needing to run all your power needs. What all will you be powering up down there. How many circuits are you wanting?

You will also have to install GFI's as well in the basement. I put mine at the beginning of each run of receptacles and fed 5-6 plugs off each GFI.

Make that info available and this forum can lend a hand. They sure helped me beyond words.
Well in the end there will be a bathroom which will have 1 GFI. There will be about 12 light cans throughout and if what i saw on the contractor side about having 1 outlet every 12 feet there will be roughly 12 additional outlets. 3 of which will be used to power a home entertainment system (tv, set top box, surround sound, etc...) is this useful?
 
#10 · (Edited)
On the wire no. Plugs will need to be on 12/2 w/ gnd. You could run the lights with the 14 sure BUT you have to put them on a 15 amp breaker in the box. I wouls suggest that you run 12-2 to everything. That way all you will have in the panel is 20 amp breakers. 20amp breakers is what you need to supply the circuits. Yes, a circuit in a nutshell is whatever you have coming off one breaker.

Yes, the light and fan can go on same circuit. But like I said, you cant tie anything else into this branch circuit. Has to be alone so to speak lol. If I am not mistaken, you CAN feed all lights off one breaker. Wire up one run then use the Hot leg to feed the next switch and light. If anyone else chimes in on this they will correct me if I am wrong.

In the bath, the light and plug can be on one as thats the way its done. The plug MUST be a gfi in the bath.

If you run 10 plugs lets say, then I would make 2 circuits of 5 outlets each with there own gfi. So in a sense you will have 1 gfi and 4 outlets. You can put more just don't over do it.

I dont know if the ENT center will blow a breaker iff it is installed correctly, so thats going to be entirely up to you.
 
#23 ·
On the wire no. Plugs will need to be on 12/2 w/ gnd. You could run the lights with the 14 sure BUT you have to put them on a 15 amp breaker in the box. I wouls suggest that you run 12-2 to everything. That way all you will have in the panel is 20 amp breakers. 20amp breakers is what you need to supply the circuits. Yes, a circuit in a nutshell is whatever you have coming off one breaker.
MR500: I'm going to step in here. There is absolutely nothing wrong code-wise with running a 15A 14/2/G circuit for receptacles. In the OP's case, she's already bought the 14/2 and I wouldn't have any issue using that for this purpose.

Also, I like to put lights on their own circuit whenever possible (not to disclude putting lighting from different rooms on the same circuit). The chances of a fault on a permanent lighting circuit are slim. If you interconnect recept. and lighting outlets on the same circuit, there is always a chance that a plug-connected appliance (or curious 5-year old) could short the hot and trip the breaker, in which case you are in the dark.

If I am not mistaken, you CAN feed all lights off one breaker. Wire up one run then use the Hot leg to feed the next switch and light. If anyone else chimes in on this they will correct me if I am wrong.
See above. No problems. The only issue would be how the new fixtures are wired, esp. if they are remodel types. You have to be careful about box fill, esp. if say three cans are being paralleled off the same point (can).

If you run 10 plugs lets say, then I would make 2 circuits of 5 outlets each with there own gfi. So in a sense you will have 1 gfi and 4 outlets. You can put more just don't over do it.
Again, overkill. Unless you anticipate certain plug-connected loads that would require the separate circuits, it's not necessarily required. If you don't mind splitting the wiring into two circuits, there's certainly nothing wrong with it. But unless you have a compelling reason to do so, it is simply extra work.

I dont know if the ENT center will blow a breaker iff it is installed correctly, so thats going to be entirely up to you.
There is a lot of BS floating around today about electrical needs/draws associated with an "entertainment center." I've heard the need for dedicated grounds, inflated neutrals, etc. Many "professionals" discuss their 5x or 7x100W amplifiers needing 4.2A/5.9A current however their typical RMS values are much smaller (transients gobble large amounts albeit only for short durations, i.e fractions of a second). There is certainly nothing wrong with providing a separate ckt., but at the end of the day, it is probably not needed.

Take care,
Jimmy
 
#12 ·
ALSO ...You should check to make sure you don't need any permits etc.. to do this. Some states counties etc.. will let you install but you must pull a permit first. Have to check with your city, county people on that one...
 
#13 · (Edited)
well I was hoping an actual electrician would chime in and correct me if I am telling you wrong. Im not electrician, but I have done research when I wired my garage up and so forth.

These guys in here know there stuff, hopefully one will chime in. might have to go track one down lol.

Mike
 
#15 · (Edited)
OHH and before you get too deep in this, is there room in your main panel for the feed to the sub panel? Just asking in case you may or may not have looked. With the little bit of stuff you are running you can probably get by with a 60 amp feed to the basement. You can go bigger to an extent, for later in life, but 60 is a lot just for plugs and a tv etc.. Gonna be up to you and how much you want to spend.

The main feeder is where most money will go. Copper is up there these days. New panel box will be next. I bought mine at the depot It was 125 amps and it came with 6 breaker. Contractors pack they call it, and it was around 70 bucks. I liked it cause it came with 20 amp breakers already. Shop around see what you can find.

Is your house service 200amps? Do you know?

Mike
 
#17 · (Edited)
Unless I missed it, how large is this basement? I wired an 800 sq ft addition (4 rooms) which took 4 circuits- 2-20a and 2-15a for outlets and lighting. You can go with straight 12 gauge (NM 12-2 w/g) for all if you want, costs more but may be worth it.

The spacing you were quoted is the minimal code allows- the purpose is to NOT have extension cords. You can certainly have outlets closer than 12' apart- I recall for residential the rule was 4' from a doorway, 12' thereafter along walls but I went 8' since I wanted to be sure of having enough without extensions. I ran my connections to the main panel rather than a subpanel which would have called for slightly different requirements in grounding. I had a nice open chase to drop the wires from the 2nd floor addition to the basement where my main is located. In retrospect I could have run a seperate panel but I had empty breaker slots available.

Just a note regarding outlets- buy at least SPEC grade if you are going to a home center to purchase, don't get taken in by the box of 10 for $4.00- it isn't worth it. SPEC grade may cost $16. for a box of 10 but you are getting a much better outlet and you only want to do the job once!

You can feed the subpanel with aluminum wiring but the gauge must be 2 sizes larger than copper and you must use deoxidizing paste on the wire ends. Also, the ground and neutral buss bar wiring in the subpanel must be kept separate.
 
#19 ·
Unless I missed it, how large is this basement? I wired an 800 sq ft addition (4 rooms) which took 4 circuits- 2-20a and 2-15a for outlets and lighting. You can go with straight 12 gauge (NM 12-2 w/g) for all if you want, costs more but may be worth it.

The spacing you were quoted is the minimal code allows- the purpose is to NOT have extension cords. You can certainly have outlets closer than 12' apart- I recall for residential the rule was 4' from a doorway, 12' thereafter along walls but I went 8' since I wanted to be sure of having enough without extensions. I ran my connections to the main panel rather than a subpanel which calls for slightly different requirements in grounding. I had a nice open chase to drop the wires from the 2nd floor addition to the basement where my main is located. In retrospect I could have run a seperate panel but I had empty breaker slots available.

Just a note regarding outlets- buy at least SPEC grade if you are going to a home center to purchase, don't get taken in by the box of 10 for $4.00- it isn't worth it. SPEC grade may cost $16. for a box of 10 but you are getting a much better outlet and you only want to do the job once!

You can feed the subpanel with aluminum wiring but the gauge must be 2 sizes larger than copper and you must use deoxidizing paste on the wire ends. Also, the ground and neutral buss bar wiring in the subpanel must be kept separate.

Its about a 600sq ft setup alltogether.

So can i use the 14-2 wire or should i return it and get the 12-2. remember its a 2 hr drive so if not neccessary i would prefer not to, I did not purchase a bargain bin outlet i went with good ones. So do i just need to get a 60 amp breaker, install it in the existing panel and run the wire to the basement for the supply? Other than that i think i am good on the outlets if i can use the wire i already bought.
 
#18 ·
Also, make sure you contact your local office for a permit if required. You do not want to get the job completed then told you have to start over again! Insurance companies will not honor their policies if not done correctly. Protect yourself!
 
#20 ·
I have used 14-2 for lighting (which is fixed and not expected to have any increase in use) and 12-2 for all outlets. 14-2 is to be only used with a 15amp breaker, 12-2 can be up to a 20 amp breaker. To me wiring is only done once when the walls are opened- planning ahead makes sense. If you were to run higher draining appliances on outlets using a 15a breaker it might pop more often (lets say a vacuum cleaner and a space heater or iron for instance). The 12-2 and 20a breaker would give you better results.
It is quantity (thicker wire) not quality in question here.
 
#22 ·
One more thing. You can get by I do believe with #6 thhn wire for the 60amps. With this you will run #8 for the ground.

So you will pull 3 #6's and 1 #8. That should do 60 amp in your basement if that what you want to go with. This is copper wire. #6 is not that bad on price. I just like copper over Al. Just me personally.

Mike
 
#24 ·
The International Residential Code is based on the National Electric Code requirement for receptacle spacing.

Here it is in a nutshell...

For living areas such as bedrooms, living rooms, rec rooms, exercise rooms, office areas, etc: All walls 24" and wider require a receptacle. No point on any wall shall be more than 6' from a receptacle. That equates to 12' on center maximum. If you have a 6' cord, you must be able to reach any point on the wall with it. You don't measure across doors, fireplaces, or built-in bookcases or entertainment centers. The measurement starts on either side of those features. The requirement remains in place for walls with floor-height windows (probably not an issue in your basement), so sometimes a floor receptacle is sometimes required.

Hallways over 10' require at least one convenience receptacle, but more than one is not required.

The requirements are totally different in baths and kitchen areas, and the focus in those rooms generally focus on counter space. If you need I can elaborate on that.

Hope this helps!
 
#34 ·
Mr500, another thing that a lot of people overlook is that the code looks at railings and freestanding bar-type counters as wall space. Therefore, the minimum outlet spacing requirements apply in those areas when those features define the room. Very interpretive call to make, but it is in the code so it is worth mentioning.

Along railings, it is typically accomplished with floor receptacles.
 
#38 ·
Ok, so I have almost all the wiring run. I appreciate all the help I have gotten so far. I will post some pictures to show what you all helped me with if you want. I think my last question that I really need help with is this.

How do I run multiple light switches from one circuit that are seperated by room? (Ex: Closet, Laundry, Storage room all on the same circuit but each light in each room is controlled by its own switch.)

Do I need to get like a junction box and split the wires inside of it to split to other rooms or can someone explain it better?
 
#39 · (Edited)
Run the circuit to the 1st switch box, then another to the next and then to the next. That wire will feed each switch with a pigtail (short wire) to the switch and also be connected to the wire running to the next switch box. The white and ground in each of those boxes will be spliced to the white and ground going to the fixtures along with the switched hot wire. Each box will contain 3 cables. One in, one out, and one to the fixture. The last box will contain 2 cables. Where there are 3 cables, you will need an min 18 CI box for #14 wire.
 
#42 · (Edited)
well the outlets per wall is no more than 6 feet froma ny given point so space them no more than 12 feet apart if the wall is under 2 feet long it does not need an outlet.
you dont need gfci protection unless it is an unfinished basement.
 
#45 ·
You have the right idea.
Just do the same thing when you leave the next switch box.
If you are using #12 wire, then you will need a 22.5cu box to avoid problems with box fill. If you are using #14 wire then you are ok.
 
#49 ·
You will put a 2 pole circuit breaker in your main panel. You will run 4 conductor wire from the main panel to the sub panel. Your ground and neutral in the sub panel must be kept separate, and you do not bond the neutral bus to the panel.

Now you must decide what size (amps) feeder you wish to install to the sub panel. How many circuits and what size will be fed from the sub panel?
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top