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Old 04-25-2008, 07:40 PM   #16
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Yeah but 93 people have stopped by to read this thread

Mike
Just think of all the things they could have said. Oh, Well.

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OHH and before you get too deep in this, is there room in your main panel for the feed to the sub panel? Just asking in case you may or may not have looked. With the little bit of stuff you are running you can probably get by with a 60 amp feed to the basement. You can go bigger to an extent, for later in life, but 60 is a lot just for plugs and a tv etc.. Gonna be up to you and how much you want to spend.

The main feeder is where most money will go. Copper is up there these days. New panel box will be next. I bought mine at the depot It was 125 amps and it came with 6 breaker. Contractors pack they call it, and it was around 70 bucks. I liked it cause it came with 20 amp breakers already. Shop around see what you can find.

Is your house service 200amps? Do you know?

Mike
There are 8 empty slots on the current panel, we already bought the new panel for the basement and it is a 125A with 16 spaces. How do i connect the main power to the new panel is my major concern. I am not sure what the power into the home is, i will check

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Old 04-25-2008, 07:46 PM   #17
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Unless I missed it, how large is this basement? I wired an 800 sq ft addition (4 rooms) which took 4 circuits- 2-20a and 2-15a for outlets and lighting. You can go with straight 12 gauge (NM 12-2 w/g) for all if you want, costs more but may be worth it.

The spacing you were quoted is the minimal code allows- the purpose is to NOT have extension cords. You can certainly have outlets closer than 12' apart- I recall for residential the rule was 4' from a doorway, 12' thereafter along walls but I went 8' since I wanted to be sure of having enough without extensions. I ran my connections to the main panel rather than a subpanel which would have called for slightly different requirements in grounding. I had a nice open chase to drop the wires from the 2nd floor addition to the basement where my main is located. In retrospect I could have run a seperate panel but I had empty breaker slots available.

Just a note regarding outlets- buy at least SPEC grade if you are going to a home center to purchase, don't get taken in by the box of 10 for $4.00- it isn't worth it. SPEC grade may cost $16. for a box of 10 but you are getting a much better outlet and you only want to do the job once!

You can feed the subpanel with aluminum wiring but the gauge must be 2 sizes larger than copper and you must use deoxidizing paste on the wire ends. Also, the ground and neutral buss bar wiring in the subpanel must be kept separate.
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Old 04-25-2008, 07:55 PM   #18
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Also, make sure you contact your local office for a permit if required. You do not want to get the job completed then told you have to start over again! Insurance companies will not honor their policies if not done correctly. Protect yourself!
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Old 04-25-2008, 07:58 PM   #19
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Unless I missed it, how large is this basement? I wired an 800 sq ft addition (4 rooms) which took 4 circuits- 2-20a and 2-15a for outlets and lighting. You can go with straight 12 gauge (NM 12-2 w/g) for all if you want, costs more but may be worth it.

The spacing you were quoted is the minimal code allows- the purpose is to NOT have extension cords. You can certainly have outlets closer than 12' apart- I recall for residential the rule was 4' from a doorway, 12' thereafter along walls but I went 8' since I wanted to be sure of having enough without extensions. I ran my connections to the main panel rather than a subpanel which calls for slightly different requirements in grounding. I had a nice open chase to drop the wires from the 2nd floor addition to the basement where my main is located. In retrospect I could have run a seperate panel but I had empty breaker slots available.

Just a note regarding outlets- buy at least SPEC grade if you are going to a home center to purchase, don't get taken in by the box of 10 for $4.00- it isn't worth it. SPEC grade may cost $16. for a box of 10 but you are getting a much better outlet and you only want to do the job once!

You can feed the subpanel with aluminum wiring but the gauge must be 2 sizes larger than copper and you must use deoxidizing paste on the wire ends. Also, the ground and neutral buss bar wiring in the subpanel must be kept separate.

Its about a 600sq ft setup alltogether.

So can i use the 14-2 wire or should i return it and get the 12-2. remember its a 2 hr drive so if not neccessary i would prefer not to, I did not purchase a bargain bin outlet i went with good ones. So do i just need to get a 60 amp breaker, install it in the existing panel and run the wire to the basement for the supply? Other than that i think i am good on the outlets if i can use the wire i already bought.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:06 PM   #20
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I have used 14-2 for lighting (which is fixed and not expected to have any increase in use) and 12-2 for all outlets. 14-2 is to be only used with a 15amp breaker, 12-2 can be up to a 20 amp breaker. To me wiring is only done once when the walls are opened- planning ahead makes sense. If you were to run higher draining appliances on outlets using a 15a breaker it might pop more often (lets say a vacuum cleaner and a space heater or iron for instance). The 12-2 and 20a breaker would give you better results.
It is quantity (thicker wire) not quality in question here.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:23 PM   #21
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Just think of all the things they could have said. Oh, Well.



There are 8 empty slots on the current panel, we already bought the new panel for the basement and it is a 125A with 16 spaces. How do i connect the main power to the new panel is my major concern. I am not sure what the power into the home is, i will check
usually you can look at the MAIN breaker in your house panel. Problaby will read 200 amp.

If you go with say a 60 amp breaker, you will have to wire the 2 hots to this breaker, the neutral and ground to the neutral buss. This neutral buss will have white wires attached to it running vertical inside your panel. Your pull will be 4 wires down to the basement. 2 hots, 1 Neutral and 1 gnd. Make sure you mark the neutral so when you get it all in the basement you will know which one it is.

At the sub panel its almost the same EXCEPT the ground and neutral CAN NOT be on the same bus. Does the box you bought have a separate grounding bus? If not no biggie you can buy one that will fit. Can you post the model and make of the new box? Maybe a pic of your main panel as well? Is that possible?

What your planning is doable. Just remember to shut off the MAIN breaker in the panel. BUT remember that the wires feeding your main panel are still HOTTTTTTTT Dont touch. lol. You can eliminate this in some cases by throwing the main breaker out side the house below the meter IF you have one. This kills ALL the power feeding the house.
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Old 04-25-2008, 08:31 PM   #22
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One more thing. You can get by I do believe with #6 thhn wire for the 60amps. With this you will run #8 for the ground.

So you will pull 3 #6's and 1 #8. That should do 60 amp in your basement if that what you want to go with. This is copper wire. #6 is not that bad on price. I just like copper over Al. Just me personally.

Mike
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:00 PM   #23
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On the wire no. Plugs will need to be on 12/2 w/ gnd. You could run the lights with the 14 sure BUT you have to put them on a 15 amp breaker in the box. I wouls suggest that you run 12-2 to everything. That way all you will have in the panel is 20 amp breakers. 20amp breakers is what you need to supply the circuits. Yes, a circuit in a nutshell is whatever you have coming off one breaker.
MR500: I'm going to step in here. There is absolutely nothing wrong code-wise with running a 15A 14/2/G circuit for receptacles. In the OP's case, she's already bought the 14/2 and I wouldn't have any issue using that for this purpose.

Also, I like to put lights on their own circuit whenever possible (not to disclude putting lighting from different rooms on the same circuit). The chances of a fault on a permanent lighting circuit are slim. If you interconnect recept. and lighting outlets on the same circuit, there is always a chance that a plug-connected appliance (or curious 5-year old) could short the hot and trip the breaker, in which case you are in the dark.

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If I am not mistaken, you CAN feed all lights off one breaker. Wire up one run then use the Hot leg to feed the next switch and light. If anyone else chimes in on this they will correct me if I am wrong.
See above. No problems. The only issue would be how the new fixtures are wired, esp. if they are remodel types. You have to be careful about box fill, esp. if say three cans are being paralleled off the same point (can).

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If you run 10 plugs lets say, then I would make 2 circuits of 5 outlets each with there own gfi. So in a sense you will have 1 gfi and 4 outlets. You can put more just don't over do it.
Again, overkill. Unless you anticipate certain plug-connected loads that would require the separate circuits, it's not necessarily required. If you don't mind splitting the wiring into two circuits, there's certainly nothing wrong with it. But unless you have a compelling reason to do so, it is simply extra work.

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I dont know if the ENT center will blow a breaker iff it is installed correctly, so thats going to be entirely up to you.
There is a lot of BS floating around today about electrical needs/draws associated with an "entertainment center." I've heard the need for dedicated grounds, inflated neutrals, etc. Many "professionals" discuss their 5x or 7x100W amplifiers needing 4.2A/5.9A current however their typical RMS values are much smaller (transients gobble large amounts albeit only for short durations, i.e fractions of a second). There is certainly nothing wrong with providing a separate ckt., but at the end of the day, it is probably not needed.

Take care,
Jimmy
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:11 PM   #24
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The International Residential Code is based on the National Electric Code requirement for receptacle spacing.

Here it is in a nutshell...

For living areas such as bedrooms, living rooms, rec rooms, exercise rooms, office areas, etc: All walls 24" and wider require a receptacle. No point on any wall shall be more than 6' from a receptacle. That equates to 12' on center maximum. If you have a 6' cord, you must be able to reach any point on the wall with it. You don't measure across doors, fireplaces, or built-in bookcases or entertainment centers. The measurement starts on either side of those features. The requirement remains in place for walls with floor-height windows (probably not an issue in your basement), so sometimes a floor receptacle is sometimes required.

Hallways over 10' require at least one convenience receptacle, but more than one is not required.

The requirements are totally different in baths and kitchen areas, and the focus in those rooms generally focus on counter space. If you need I can elaborate on that.

Hope this helps!
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:13 PM   #25
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Also to add that you can not use the 14/2 in the bathroom. It must be 12/2 and a 20 amp breaker. You can put the entire bathroom on that 20 amp circuit, but nothing else..
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:21 PM   #26
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MR500: I'm going to step in here. There is absolutely nothing wrong code-wise with running a 15A 14/2/G circuit for receptacles. In the OP's case, she's already bought the 14/2 and I wouldn't have any issue using that for this purpose.


Again, overkill. Unless you anticipate certain plug-connected loads that would require the separate circuits, it's not necessarily required. If you don't mind splitting the wiring into two circuits, there's certainly nothing wrong with it. But unless you have a compelling reason to do so, it is simply extra work.
I want saying that anything is wrong with 14-2 for lights,. I was im plying to use 12 so that ALL is the same and there wasn't any confusion when the lights started going in. But she can get the 15amp breaker and run the lights since she bought 14 already. But use the 14 wire ONLY on the lights. Will be in great shape.

I have just never put more than 6 plugs on one breaker before. I know theres not really a limit, 6 or so is just ME hahah. Its a little more work to run another home run, but I do it anyway.


Mike
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:28 PM   #27
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The International Residential Code is based on the National Electric Code requirement for receptacle spacing.

Here it is in a nutshell...

For living areas such as bedrooms, living rooms, rec rooms, exercise rooms, office areas, etc: All walls 24" and wider require a receptacle. No point on any wall shall be more than 6' from a receptacle. That equates to 12' on center maximum. If you have a 6' cord, you must be able to reach any point on the wall with it. You don't measure across doors, fireplaces, or built-in bookcases or entertainment centers. The measurement starts on either side of those features. The requirement remains in place for walls with floor-height windows (probably not an issue in your basement), so sometimes a floor receptacle is sometimes required.

Hallways over 10' require at least one convenience receptacle, but more than one is not required.

The requirements are totally different in baths and kitchen areas, and the focus in those rooms generally focus on counter space. If you need I can elaborate on that.

Hope this helps!
Ok so about every 6 ft there has to be a receptacle on (wall) space larger than 2 ft? Put that in my notes lol.
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:40 PM   #28
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I tried to copy the picture that chris put up, but could not. Here is a link to that thread. Look at post #5.


http://www.diychatroom.com/showthrea...330#post115330
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Old 04-25-2008, 10:53 PM   #29
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I tried to copy the picture that chris put up, but could not. Here is a link to that thread. Look at post #5.


http://www.diychatroom.com/showthrea...330#post115330
Very nice I get it now
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Old 04-26-2008, 12:11 AM   #30
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MR500: I'm going to step in here. There is absolutely nothing wrong code-wise with running a 15A 14/2/G circuit for receptacles. In the OP's case, "she's" already bought the 14/2 and I wouldn't have any issue using that for this purpose.
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But "she" can get the 15amp breaker and run the lights since she bought 14 already. But use the 14 wire ONLY on the lights. Mike
Sorry about any confusion, but I am a Man!! Thanks for all your guys' help with everything.

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