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 amakarevic 11-08-2013 04:03 PM

Baseboard Heater Circuit Design

I am designing the circuit(s) for my basement apartment (cca. 800 sq ft) baseboard heating solution. I am planning to buy Berko HBB Series heaters and distribute them as shown in the below table. All have a voltage of 240/208.

Code:

```Location        Model      Length(in.) Watts      Amps -----------------------------------------------------------    Living Room    HBB1504    70          1500/1125  6.3/5.8            Bath            HBB504      28          500/375    2.1/1.8            Bedroom        HBB1254    58          1250/938    5.2/4.5            Hallway        HBB754      34          750/563    3.1/2.7```
My questions are:
1. Should I split them into two circuits (living room and bathroom in one, bedroom and hallway in the other) or is it OK to keep them all on one circuit?

2. Is the voltage a factor in determining the wire gauge? I know that the amperage is. E.g. if I split them in two circuits so that each circuit bears less than 10A each, can I go with AWG 14/3 even though the voltage is double than usual? Or simply put, which AWG should I use for either scenario from question 1.?
I have an extensive experience as a DIY electrician, I have pretty much rewired most of my house and have set up one 240/120 circuit for my dryer (used AWG 10/3). But this is considerably lower amperage so I am not sure what AWG to use.

 jbfan 11-08-2013 04:43 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by amakarevic (Post 1264076) I am designing the circuit(s) for my basement apartment (cca. 800 sq ft) baseboard heating solution. I am planning to buy Berko HBB Series heaters and distribute them as shown in the below table. All have a voltage of 240/208. Code: ```Location        Model      Length(in.) Watts      Amps -----------------------------------------------------------    Living Room    HBB1504    70          1500/1125  6.3/5.8            Bath            HBB504      28          500/375    2.1/1.8            Bedroom        HBB1254    58          1250/938    5.2/4.5            Hallway        HBB754      34          750/563    3.1/2.7``` My questions are: 1. Should I split them into two circuits (living room and bathroom in one, bedroom and hallway in the other) or is it OK to keep them all on one circuit? 2. Is the voltage a factor in determining the wire gauge? I know that the amperage is. E.g. if I split them in two circuits so that each circuit bears less than 10A each, can I go with AWG 14/3 even though the voltage is double than usual? Or simply put, which AWG should I use for either scenario from question 1.?I have an extensive experience as a DIY electrician, I have pretty much rewired most of my house and have set up one 240/120 circuit for my dryer (used AWG 10/3). But this is considerably lower amperage so I am not sure what AWG to use.
14/2 on a 2 pole 15 amp breaker for each pair of heaters.

I almost would be tempted to put them all on a 20 amp circuit and 12/2 wire.

 amakarevic 11-08-2013 04:50 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jbfan (Post 1264093) 14/2 on a 2 pole 15 amp breaker for each pair of heaters.
Doesn't dual voltage require two hots?

 Oso954 11-08-2013 04:52 PM

Warm weather areas can get away with the one circuit.
Cold weather makes 2 circuits much more desirable. One problem won't take out all the heat.

 amakarevic 11-08-2013 05:00 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Oso954 (Post 1264097) Cold weather makes 2 circuits much more desirable. One problem won't take out all the heat.
Well if I am home, I flip the breaker back on. If I am away, who cares if it is colder?

 jbfan 11-08-2013 05:31 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by amakarevic (Post 1264096) Doesn't dual voltage require two hots?
The 240 requires 2 hots, but does not require a neutral.

 amakarevic 11-08-2013 05:41 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by jbfan (Post 1264105) The 240 requires 2 hots, but does not require a neutral.
Hmmm. That sure is interesting. Never seen anything that "does not require a neutral". I trust you but can you please explain this phenomenon so it makes sense to me?

Thanks

 stickboy1375 11-08-2013 05:57 PM

12 Attachment(s)
I generally use 10 watts per sq. ft. with a 8 ft. ceiling, Thats how I size the required amount of electric heat required, now with that said, using 15 amp breakers you are allowed 11' of electric heat @ 250 watts per ft, and 15' of electric heat at 20 amps, those numbers are the deciding factor when laying out electric heat, I also use heat relays and low voltage t-stats because I like them in my opinion…

you are already over 16 amps, and electric heat is considered a continuous load, you need 2 circuits…..either 15 or 20 amps….

 stickboy1375 11-08-2013 05:59 PM

12 Attachment(s)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by amakarevic (Post 1264109) Hmmm. That sure is interesting. Never seen anything that "does not require a neutral". I trust you but can you please explain this phenomenon so it makes sense to me? Thanks
Not every appliance requires a grounded conductor (neutral), a electric water heater or AC unit is a perfect example…

 stickboy1375 11-08-2013 06:02 PM

12 Attachment(s)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by jbfan (Post 1264093) I almost would be tempted to put them all on a 20 amp circuit and 12/2 wire.
Impossible, over 80% of a 20 amp circuit…..

 TarheelTerp 11-08-2013 08:36 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by amakarevic (Post 1264076) I am designing the circuit(s) for my basement apartment (cca. 800 sq ft) baseboard heating solution.
Your space (880SF x 7ft ceiling) = 6160 watts total
You don't have enough heaters.
Get another 2000 watts worth.

That (6000/240) is AT LEAST two 20A 240V circuits.

I'd suggest running those circuits through a relay
with a 24V coil... and using a 24V set back thermostat
(and of course a 24V transformer too).

 stickboy1375 11-08-2013 08:44 PM

12 Attachment(s)
Quote:
 Originally Posted by TarheelTerp (Post 1264201) I'd suggest running those circuits through a relay with a 24V coil... and using a 24V set back thermostat (and of course a 24V transformer too).
They make electric heat relays with built in transformers…..

http://i21.geccdn.net/site/images/n-.../CDM_73031.jpg

 amakarevic 11-11-2013 09:59 AM

why would i need a relay? and where would i install it? the elec. panel?

 itsnotrequired 11-11-2013 10:23 AM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by amakarevic (Post 1264096) Doesn't dual voltage require two hots?
you don't need to run 120 and 240 to the heaters. you can use either voltage.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by amakarevic (Post 1265299) why would i need a relay? and where would i install it? the elec. panel?
you don't necessarily need a relay. if you get a thermostat rated for line voltage and the amperage of the circuit, you wouldn't need a separate relay. berko makes line-rated thermostats, check out their website.

 TarheelTerp 11-11-2013 03:03 PM

Quote:
 Originally Posted by amakarevic (Post 1265299) why would i need a relay?
There are more options available with 24V thermostats.
Put the entire space under one control.
The relay will handle the load.

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