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Old 12-19-2012, 11:43 PM   #31
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Bare 240 volt wire...oh, and it


I saw where it became a code to not put panels in closets in 1981. Since this house was built in 1964, it would probably be considered Grandfathered. There are homes in this town that are still on wells and septic tanks, for same reason. Anyway, if I had a few thousand dollars I would see about moving the panel box to the laundry/mud room, but I don't, so that probably won't happen any time soon.

My main problem/concern is turning off that wire as it is a bad fire hazard. I'm thinking the previous owner may have had it turned off, but I have had to flip those switches several times when power went out, and probably flipped it back on by mistake.

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Old 12-29-2012, 03:37 PM   #32
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Bare 240 volt wire...oh, and it


I just received a voltage tester, a Sinometer DCY25 Non-contact AC DC Voltage Detector , and I concluded that:

1. the live wire is on the same 2 breakers as my stove.

2. For some reason, it will not show me a voltage read when I touch the tip to either of the bare wires coming out of the end , but only shows when it is hot by
touching the outer insulation with either breaker or both ON. So I still do not know how much voltage it has, except that it is probably the same voltage as the wires going to my stove. I also tested the voltage on other outlets and I get a read on exact voltage, so it does work, and therefore is not the tester.

3. When only one breaker is on, it detects electricity as far away as 4 inches from even touching the bare wire, but when other switch is on by itself, I have to actually touch the wire to register it being hot. When both breakers are on, I also get a HOT wire signal from 4 inches away, without touching the wire. Maybe this is just how it works when connected to 2 breakers?

4. Another side observation, one of my back burners on my stove does not register as being hot, unless I turn on the other three, and even then, it does not get hot enough to cook anything, but stays barely warm. So, I am thinking that bare wire may be causing this. Seems that maybe the previous owners tried to hook up a wire on the same breakers as the stove, and run it out to the garage, found out that wasn't going to work, so just cut the wire and left it hanging out of the side of the house. Now I have to figure out how to disconnect it from the breaker box, and hopeful my stove will work normally again.

Any thoughts?
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:54 PM   #33
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Bare 240 volt wire...oh, and it


Non contact testers should never be used by a novice to troubleshoot.
The on;y way to be sure of the voltage is a meter.
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Old 12-29-2012, 04:44 PM   #34
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Bare 240 volt wire...oh, and it


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I have had two serious shocks and I remember both like they were 10 minutes ago. The first was about 30 years ago.
I know your pain got hit really hard with a bad pump standing in water and I am lucky to be here today. My body felt like someone beat me up for a week. Was supposed to be GFCI but it failed.
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:24 PM   #35
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Bare 240 volt wire...oh, and it


Okay,

Please understand this. I just need feedback that will help me solve my problem.
I don't need anymore criticism for trying to do this myself. I see several posts
from experienced electricians having serious shocks from mistakes, while I cut through a live wire and received not even a shock, yet I have the same experience and hindsight so in that regard I would say I am way ahead of you in using precaution with electricity. No I don't have a thousand dollars or more for an electrician. If you have any helpful tips or ideas on how to proceed, please
post them, I greatly appreciate it. Otherwise please refrain from wasting my time
on why I should pay an electrician to do this.

My non contact tester is also a contact tester, which I have stated if you fully read my post, and it does work, so I guess that means I am smart enough to use it and not get shocked. So please let me know if you have any ideas on the present scenario as I have posted and leave it at that.

Thank you and thanks for all the positive useful feedback thus far.

Again,

I just received a voltage tester, a Sinometer DCY25 Non-contact AC DC Voltage Detector , and I concluded that:

1. the live wire is on the same 2 breakers as my stove.

2. For some reason, it will not show me a voltage read when I touch the tip to either of the bare wires coming out of the end , but only shows when it is hot by
touching the outer insulation with either breaker or both ON. So I still do not know how much voltage it has, except that it is probably the same voltage as the wires going to my stove. I also tested the voltage on other outlets and I get a read on exact voltage, so it does work, and therefore is not the tester.

3. When only one breaker is on, it detects electricity as far away as 4 inches from even touching the bare wire, but when other switch is on by itself, I have to actually touch the wire to register it being hot. When both breakers are on, I also get a HOT wire signal from 4 inches away, without touching the wire. Maybe this is just how it works when connected to 2 breakers?

4. Another side observation, one of my back burners on my stove does not register as being hot, unless I turn on the other three, and even then, it does not get hot enough to cook anything, but stays barely warm. So, I am thinking that bare wire may be causing this. Seems that maybe the previous owners tried to hook up a wire on the same breakers as the stove, and run it out to the garage, found out that wasn't going to work, so just cut the wire and left it hanging out of the side of the house. Now I have to figure out how to disconnect it from the breaker box, and hopeful my stove will work normally again.

Any thoughts?
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:18 PM   #36
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Bare 240 volt wire...oh, and it


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Any thoughts?
A non contact voltage conductor cannot be trusted for serious troubleshooting. Any conclusion reached via that method is suspect and should not be trusted. It's apparent you want to do this yourself (which I would not recommend) but that's neither here nor there at this point. You need to get a meter before proceeding any further.
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Old 12-29-2012, 06:36 PM   #37
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Bare 240 volt wire...oh, and it


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4. Another side observation, one of my back burners on my stove does not register as being hot, unless I turn on the other three, and even then, it does not get hot enough to cook anything, but stays barely warm. So, I am thinking that bare wire may be causing this. Seems that maybe the previous owners tried to hook up a wire on the same breakers as the stove, and run it out to the garage, found out that wasn't going to work, so just cut the wire and left it hanging out of the side of the house. Now I have to figure out how to disconnect it from the breaker box, and hopeful my stove will work normally again.

Any thoughts?
I think that your stove is 240, and that mystery wire is also 240. But, when it shorted, it took out 1 120v leg of the circuit feeding your stove, also showing 120v on the cable. Thats why your stove "half works". This is possibly because the 2 handles are not tied together on the breaker/is not a 240v breaker. If that is even the problem. God only knows, is the stupid cable even connected to a breaker? :O Just my 2 cents.....I think you have a mess on your hands. Time for an electrician?

Last edited by seansy59; 12-29-2012 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:45 PM   #38
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"This is possibly because the 2 handles are not tied together on the breaker/is not a 240v breaker"

Right, that's what I thought. It looks like they used two breakers for the stove, because that was easier ( so they thought) than replacing the whole box with breakers they could use properly. What you said about the shorted wire not having the same voltage anymore, as where I cut it still allows juice to flow to the end, but the wire's cut now so it won't show what the actual voltage is. That makes sense. At least I can see when it is hot or not and that is the main thing.
Thanks. Plus I don't see anything wrong at all with my using the meter I bought,
as many electricians use this same meter, it works great, and it is very user friendly. Why all these critical remarks about having to be a licensed electrician to do simple tasks? I'm not interested in useless arguing over things that have nothing to do with my situation. Thanks again for the insight on that last post.
Really appreciate it. I'm going to remove the panel on that box next, and get a visual on what is wired to those two breakers, and test the voltage at the box on both of them.

You're right, its a mess. I know the people I bought the house from. The husband is an honest fellow and he sold me house for what he owed, not a penny more. He and I both knew there were major flaws here and there, so I am not surprised at any of this. I still got a great deal on it, considering everything.
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Old 12-29-2012, 09:55 PM   #39
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Bare 240 volt wire...oh, and it


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Plus I don't see anything wrong at all with my using the meter I bought,
as many electricians use this same meter.
If nothing else, please take this from this thread. A non-contact voltage tester is not an effective means of troubleshooting electrical problems. It can (and will) beep when no voltage is present, and it may not beep when voltage is present. Many call them "death sticks."

Electrical requires an exact reading of voltage as well as a means of checking continuity. Those are obtained by using a meter.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:15 PM   #40
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Bare 240 volt wire...oh, and it


Yeah, I'm hearing use a voltage meter, but you have to be qualified to use one so I'm not going to explain how to use it, so you should call an electrician, and that's a thousand dollars, and blah blah blah... Most people know if you touch electricity it will shock you, but apparently you have to be licensed to find this out first hand. This is such a waste of time.

I guess I will just ignore the problem, and maybe my house won't catch on fire. Oh, but I am about to buy and install a new stove, and dishwasher, so that won't work.

Duly noted most of you aren't going to give any real constructive help unless
I am an experienced licensed tech. Yet, if I was, I wouldn't be here, would I?
Okay, well good luck with all that.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:23 PM   #41
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No idea what you're talking about. I gave constructive advice in the post above yours. If you had a multimeter someone (myself included) would talk you through using it (no qualification required.) The possibilities in this case are numerous, and a meter would narrow them down very quickly.
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Old 12-29-2012, 11:40 PM   #42
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That's not what I got from earlier posts. Mostly I'm getting why I can't do something, which, frankly, is b...sh.t. If I had gotten that sort of support in the beginning of this, specifically when I first mentioned getting a meter, I would have already bought a meter based on what was recommended, and taken any advice on how to use it. But that is not what occurred. So far, I have done everything on my own because no real help has been offered to me. I have found out where the wire is connected, how much voltage it probably has, how to turn it off ( and my stove) and I have a nice tester to use for many projects.

A lot of other licensed electricians use this same meter/tester as their main tester, so I don't know where anyone gets that its not reliable but that is your opinion, at least I researched it first. And the reason I didn't buy a more expensive meter was I got negative feedback from an earlier post on even using it.

I got some good general ideas about the situation and info about the type box I have, that's good to know, but mostly I'm getting no one really wants to
as you say walk me through anything because they are not confident I can figure out what they are saying.

So here I am three pages later, and I'm still hearing, get an electrician, etc.

I'm not getting anywhere here so I will continue on my own and through other sources. Thanks again for the few who saw clear to offer something I could use.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:17 AM   #43
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That's not what I got from earlier posts. Mostly I'm getting why I can't do something, which, frankly, is b...sh.t. I

So here I am three pages later, and I'm still hearing, get an electrician, etc.

I'm not getting anywhere here so I will continue on my own and through other sources. Thanks again for the few who saw clear to offer something I could use.
It's a miracle you're still alive. I think the rubber grips saved you, otherwise the electricity could have constricted your hand mucles into a literal death grip or thrown you into God knows what. In the electrical world, you don't cut wires simply because they're unsightly.
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Old 12-30-2012, 12:47 PM   #44
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A lot of other licensed electricians use this same meter/tester as their main tester, so I don't know where anyone gets that its not reliable but that is your opinion, at least I researched it first.
No they don't, and no you didn't. Stop blaming the volunteers giving you advice for not telling you what you wanted to hear. You got the wrong testing device. No electrician uses a non-contact tester as their "main tester". Where in the world did you come up with that? Most electricians have one, but only as a secondary tool with full awareness of the limitations. Nobody trusts them for life safety - even the instructions tell you not to! A search of this board, or the rest of the internet, would have clearly shown that a non-contact tester is the wrong tool for what you're doing. Owning one without a companion multimeter is pointless.

The situation you're faced with is BASIC. This is not some complex grounding/bonding problem with mysterious voltage readings and electrified plumbing. That happens, and we've talked inexperienced people through those situations on this forum. Your problems are simple. You need a multimeter (low-impedance would be nice) and a rudimentary understanding of how home electrical systems work. Without those prerequisites, you can't take the next steps to identifying the source of power to the dangling wires and solving the stove problem. If you want help fixing the problems, then take the advice and follow it. Arguing with the people who you are asking for advice is not going to get you more or better advice.
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Old 12-30-2012, 02:33 PM   #45
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Bare 240 volt wire...oh, and it


I think your tester is fine for what you want to do, determine which breaker controls the wire.
You can now turn the power off to safely work on it.

What you do with it is up to you. At the very least, you want to put it in a box and wire nut it off.
Since you cut it to close to the wall, unless you can pull an extra 6" out of the wall?
Next would be to pull it back inside and mount the box ..... can you access it from the attic maybe?
We know someone that was not real bright installed it later, must be some way to access the wire from inside the house or attic.
All sticking it in a box will do, create a safer situation then what you have now. Is not really a fix.

A proper fix would be to locate where they tied into the same breakers as the stove. Simply disconnect the wire and kill it, and remove it totally if possible.
Considering the expertise of the original installer, this connection could be anywhere ... in the panel, in the outlet where the stove plugs in ... buried in a wall.
But removing the wire totally is proper fix.

If you entertain the idea of using it for power for garage, think about not being able to use stove while out in shop working ... No warm dinner for you

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