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Old 08-12-2013, 03:46 PM   #16
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Bad wiring of Portable Power Panel


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Originally Posted by mpoulton View Post
90.2(A). This thing has a plug and isn't attached to anything.
then what you are saying is that if you don't connect any thing to outlet code don't matter?the plug on the panel/cord,has nothing to do with the breakers in the sub panel.that is the supply not the load side of sub breakers.


Last edited by oleguy74; 08-12-2013 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 08-12-2013, 06:53 PM   #17
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Bad wiring of Portable Power Panel


The blue and white wires are standard THHN/THWN and are 12 gauge wires, I can't say the same for the green wire, it honestly looks like an extension cord grounding wire, maybe 16-14 gauge, certainly not 12 gauge.

Blue is typically the color of the 3rd leg in a 3 phase 120/208 service, (Black/Red/Blue) I've seen blue used many times in AC as a hot conductor.

The way they wired the ground is a concern especially considering where this panel was in use at and if there were a short to ground there's a possibility the ground wire to the outlets would give up first rather than the 30 amp breaker.

I still don't believe there is anyway the 30 amp breakers on a 15 amp outlet is considered legal, regardless of the portability of the sub-panel, cord-and-plug connected, etc. Again, I look at where this came out of and the number of students that were presumably near this panel while it was in use...
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:16 PM   #18
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Bad wiring of Portable Power Panel


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then what you are saying is that if you don't connect any thing to outlet code don't matter?the plug on the panel/cord,has nothing to do with the breakers in the sub panel.that is the supply not the load side of sub breakers.
No, I'm saying this entire thing doesn't fall within the NEC's jurisdiction. It's not an "installation". It's not connected to the building, except by a plug. The NEC does not govern appliances.
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:36 PM   #19
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Bad wiring of Portable Power Panel


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Originally Posted by mpoulton

No, I'm saying this entire thing doesn't fall within the NEC's jurisdiction. It's not an "installation". It's not connected to the building, except by a plug. The NEC does not govern appliances.
The NEC does cover portable power units, which this would qualify as wouldn't it? See 520.62 "Portable Power Distribution Units."
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:37 PM   #20
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Bad wiring of Portable Power Panel


appliances are covered in art 422 of nec.
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:44 PM   #21
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Bad wiring of Portable Power Panel


520.9.says recp amp rating snall not be less than branch ckt overcurrent device.which brings us to the fact that 15/20 amp recp's can't be used for in this case 30 amp ckts.
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:28 PM   #22
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Bad wiring of Portable Power Panel


The outlets are self grounding outlets with the copper thing under where the receptical mounting screw is.
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:10 PM   #23
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Bad wiring of Portable Power Panel


There appears to be a lot of minor code violations !
But the main problem appears to be just caused by damage from
abuse. or just plain old worn out from lots of use.
This is not always the fault of the original assembler.
How many of the code violations were considered normal
at the time of original manufacter ?

More than anything it speaks of the poor attitude towards correct use of electrical apperatise, and willingness to use anything in any condition.

Very poor attitude towards electrical safety.
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Old 08-13-2013, 03:39 PM   #24
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Bad wiring of Portable Power Panel


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appliances are covered in art 422 of nec.
Installation of appliances is covered in 422, not construction of appliances. Section V of Art. 422 may appear to require certain attributes, but cannot be construed as any sort of enforceable limitation beyond the scope encompassed by Art. 90. If the appliance is not "installed" in a structure, the NEC cannot control it.
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Old 08-13-2013, 03:49 PM   #25
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Bad wiring of Portable Power Panel


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The NEC does cover portable power units, which this would qualify as wouldn't it? See 520.62 "Portable Power Distribution Units."
Art. 520 does purport to cover some types of portable equipment, but I am not so sure the portable equipment provisions are legally binding. They are beyond the stated scope of the NEC, and usually beyond the rulemaking and enforcement authority of the AHJ's that adopt the NEC locally. If the NEC said that all flashlights must use D-cell batteries, would it be enforceable? Nope - and this isn't that much different.

However, it's not exactly clear that this thing even violates 520.62 at all. The Article requires that the receptacles HAVE overcurrent protection in the box, and they do. It requires (by reference to 520.45) that the receptacles be rated in amperes, and they are. I can't find a specific requirement that the overcurrent protection be any particular amperage.
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Old 08-13-2013, 03:50 PM   #26
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Bad wiring of Portable Power Panel


try 520 IV. Portable Switchboards on Stage

520.50 Road Show Connection Panel (A Type of Patch Panel).

520.51 Supply.

520.52

520.53
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Old 08-13-2013, 03:55 PM   #27
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Bad wiring of Portable Power Panel


and .... 12 gauge THHN/THWN wire IS rated for 30 amps ...FYI

just not in a residence for outlets and lights and most residential applications

ie ...

**Refer to 240.4(D) for conductor overcurrent protection limitations.

then table ..

(G) Overcurrent Protection for Specific Conductor Applications. Overcurrent protection for the specific conductors shall be permitted to be provided as referenced in Table 240.4(G)
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Old 08-13-2013, 04:01 PM   #28
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Bad wiring of Portable Power Panel


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and .... 12 gauge THHN/THWN wire IS rated for 30 amps ...FYI

just not in a residence
yes but the recp's are 15/20 amp not 30 amp.that is the point of my comments.also the 90* columb you fefer to,isn't that columb designed for de-rating purpes?

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Old 08-13-2013, 04:09 PM   #29
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Bad wiring of Portable Power Panel


520.1 Scope. This article covers all buildings or that part of a building or structure, indoor or outdoor, designed or used for presentation, dramatic, musical, motion picture projection, or similar purposes and to specific audience seating areas within motion picture or television studios.



**********************************************


The special requirements of Article 520 apply only to that part of a building used as a theater or for a similar purpose and do not necessarily apply to the entire building. In a school building, for example, the requirements of Article 520 apply to an auditorium used for dramatic or other performances. The special requirements of this article apply to the stage, auditorium, dressing rooms, and main corridors leading to the auditorium, but not to other parts of the building that are not involved in the use of the auditorium for performances or entertainment. The theater space may be a traditional theater, where the audience sits in the auditorium (house) facing the proscenium arch and views the performance on the stage on the other side of the arch, or it may house other spaces, such as a simple stage platform, either indoors or outdoors, with seats on three or four sides facing the platform. Audience areas of motion picture and television studios, as defined and covered in Article 530, are also covered by the requirements of Article 520.
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Old 08-13-2013, 04:13 PM   #30
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Bad wiring of Portable Power Panel


or try ...

ARTICLE 590 Temporary Installations

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