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Old 10-29-2013, 08:23 PM   #16
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:48 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by gregzoll View Post
In those builds, where they are paid by the room or structure, it is quicker to just poke the wire into the back, then do it right, by cutting the insulation, making the loop and screwing down.

Really if you are using Commercial outlets and switches, which have a compression plate that is screwed down, using a "Yankee" drill makes it quicker to tighten the screws on those, then it does to hand twist the screw, and is just as fast as "Backstabbing".
There are some inspectors that have required back-wired (screw & plate) receptacles when the wire used is stranded. When I started in the trades, pretty much all small wire was solid. Now stranded has all but replaced solid wire. As that happened, local codes made adjustments.

But the worst "crime" became back-stabbing with aluminum wire. A lot of receptacles fried using that formula. Both the back-stab installation and small aluminum wire lost a lot of brownie points because of that.

When stranded wire started becoming more common, and before the back-wired receptacles were common, standard practice to create the loop in the wire became this: partially strip the wire, then reverse twist the strands before wrapping it around the screw. This prevents the strands from spreading out once you began to tighten down the screw and the insulation tail left behind keeps the individual strands together.

The pickiest of inspectors have insisted we use sta-kons for stranded wire if the receptacles aren't back-wired. But no sta-kons for solid wire and no using the receptacle for a feed thru. Most inspectors held to that rule. You must make up a tail to wire in the receptacle.

Over the years I have seen the typical receptacle go from a back-stab/side-wire setup to most all being back-wire. They seem to be better made than receptacles in the past.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:16 AM   #18
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All I have dealt with has been residential and the outlets looked like the cheap ones from Depot or Lowes. I guess my point, if there is one, is the people that make up the codes a lot of times get so picky as to verge on ridiculous and yet they let something like this that seems like it could be pretty dangerous go on.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:33 AM   #19
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All I have dealt with has been residential and the outlets looked like the cheap ones from Depot or Lowes.
The HD here sells Leviton, Lowes has Cooper.
With the statement above, (don't mean to pick, you're not the only one to make this statement), how many assembly lines do you believe these companys have?
IMO they all come off the same line, so they should all have the same quality, regardless of where you buy them.
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Old 10-30-2013, 07:42 AM   #20
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The only time I have run into problems with back-stabs, is with the older receptacles that you could stab either #12 or #14, and # 14 was used. These are service calls on homes built pre-1980's.
For the OP, I know Chicago only allows #12 so I would say they may be the only place to "outlaw" back-stabs, maybe others, I don't know, I'm just a small company in Kansas.
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Old 10-30-2013, 01:13 PM   #21
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The HD here sells Leviton, Lowes has Cooper.
With the statement above, (don't mean to pick, you're not the only one to make this statement), how many assembly lines do you believe these companys have?
IMO they all come off the same line, so they should all have the same quality, regardless of where you buy them.
I have seen Leviton & Pass & Seymour at Lowe's in our area.
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:20 PM   #22
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I guess I said it poorly I was not trying to blame the manufacture. What I was trying to say is these may/probably were DIY because every sparky I have talked to say they don't use them.
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:23 PM   #23
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Guys....shouldn't we be discussing this over a few beers?

That way, after a couple of cases, we forget what we were arguing about in the first place.
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Old 10-30-2013, 08:54 PM   #24
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Guys....shouldn't we be discussing this over a few beers?

That way, after a couple of cases, we forget what we were arguing about in the first place.
How do you think that most of these start in the first place. That along with just having a bad day at work usually creates the trend.
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Old 10-30-2013, 09:09 PM   #25
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I must have had too many already I didn't realize we were arguing.
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Old 11-19-2013, 01:21 PM   #26
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I just picked up some Lutron Maestro companion dimmers. They are needed for the 2nd 3-way and for all 4-way switches when changing out the standard switches. All companion switches have only three terminals with the blue screw terminal needing to connect to all blue screw terminals on however many switches you have in the line. You need to tag one of the travellers throughout the line.

When replacing a 4-way switch, Lutron's instructions show terminating one of the 4-way travellers to the blue terminal screw and one to the back stab on the blue terminal.

Since most municipalities around here have long ago banned back stab terminations, I wonder how that would play out with the inspectors. Since I don't know how everything is connected internally, with all its electronic guts, I'll use the back stab, reluctantly.
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Old 11-19-2013, 06:45 PM   #27
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I just picked up some Lutron Maestro companion dimmers. They are needed for the 2nd 3-way and for all 4-way switches when changing out the standard switches. All companion switches have only three terminals with the blue screw terminal needing to connect to all blue screw terminals on however many switches you have in the line. You need to tag one of the travellers throughout the line.

When replacing a 4-way switch, Lutron's instructions show terminating one of the 4-way travellers to the blue terminal screw and one to the back stab on the blue terminal.

Since most municipalities around here have long ago banned back stab terminations, I wonder how that would play out with the inspectors. Since I don't know how everything is connected internally, with all its electronic guts, I'll use the back stab, reluctantly.
Easy, you'd pig tail the two wires and then put the 1 wire under the screw...
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Old 11-21-2013, 06:13 PM   #28
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Easy, you'd pig tail the two wires and then put the 1 wire under the screw...
That's what I thought but since I don't know the inner workings of electronic dimmers, I contacted Lutron. And they said the pig tail is just fine.

These dimmers are $30@ and are very unforgiving. So I had to check. But I think this is the old-dog-new-trick scenario. When you've done something one way for decades and then something new comes along, like the Princess phone , you just have to make sure you aren't on Mars.
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Old 11-22-2013, 12:18 AM   #29
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If you were on my crew and I caught you back-stabbing, you would be unemployed. Period.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:20 AM   #30
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If you were on my crew and I caught you back-stabbing, you would be unemployed. Period.
I would sue you for firing me…

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