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Old 02-23-2009, 10:47 PM   #1
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Back feed on SE


Is there any reason you can't use a backfed breaker with a hold down as your main breaker on SE? If you did this in a panel that has a regular main breaker, then you would just leave the main breaker off...and it would be serviced via the backfed breaker.

Is this legit?
Thanks
Jamie

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Old 02-23-2009, 11:42 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
Is there any reason you can't use a backfed breaker with a hold down as your main breaker on SE? If you did this in a panel that has a regular main breaker, then you would just leave the main breaker off...and it would be serviced via the backfed breaker.

Is this legit?
Thanks
Jamie

Its leagal. you met the disconnecting means. I do this install quite often if i'm upgrading a panel and dont touch the outside of a 100a service, I still install a 200 amp main breaker panel, but install a 100 amp breaker as the main.

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Old 02-23-2009, 11:44 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by chris75 View Post
Its leagal. you met the disconnecting means.
Thanks
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Old 02-24-2009, 06:46 AM   #4
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In no way am I disagreeing with Chris however, I thought I'd throw this out there.

Using a standard breaker as a main breaker may not provide the interrupting capacity you'll need to open should a fault occur.

Most main breakers, if not all, have a 22 kaic rating and branch breakers usually have a 10 kaic rating.

These are allowed to be used per the "2 tier system" because the 10 is being protected upstream with the 22.

I'm referring to 110.9, 110.10 and 240.89. Also, this provides some information as well http://ecatalog.squared.com/pubs/Ele...4100DB0301.pdf

I would check with the POCO to see what the available fault current is so, in the event of a fault, the breaker is capable of interrupting it.

Just something to consider.
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:11 AM   #5
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Back feed on SE


Please define backfeed or post a schematic. Thanks.
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Old 02-24-2009, 07:22 AM   #6
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He's basically getting for example, a 200 amp load center and installing a 100 amp branch breaker and feeding the panel this way. So the 100 amp breaker would be the "main breaker"
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Old 02-24-2009, 08:11 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wirenut1110 View Post
He's basically getting for example, a 200 amp load center and installing a 100 amp branch breaker and feeding the panel this way. So the 100 amp breaker would be the "main breaker"
Exactly, Thanks for the info on the kaic protection of the various breakers, I will check on that.

If I do this, It would just be temporary, as I was thinking of getting some more thinks cleaned up the way I want them before I more up to 200A service. This would allow me to feed a panel with a 200A built in main with my 100A service.

I also thought about throwing up a outside 6 breaker MLO with 1-100A in it to feed my panel. A MLO is valid as SE with the 6 disconnect rule correct?

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Old 02-24-2009, 08:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wirenut1110 View Post
In no way am I disagreeing with Chris however, I thought I'd throw this out there.

Using a standard breaker as a main breaker may not provide the interrupting capacity you'll need to open should a fault occur.

Most main breakers, if not all, have a 22 kaic rating and branch breakers usually have a 10 kaic rating.

These are allowed to be used per the "2 tier system" because the 10 is being protected upstream with the 22.

I'm referring to 110.9, 110.10 and 240.89. Also, this provides some information as well http://ecatalog.squared.com/pubs/Ele...4100DB0301.pdf

I would check with the POCO to see what the available fault current is so, in the event of a fault, the breaker is capable of interrupting it.

Just something to consider.
Interesting... I learn something new here almost every day. Thanks for that post.

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Old 02-24-2009, 09:01 AM   #9
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I believe you should be able to find a 200 amp panel with feed thru lugs to use outside if you want. This way you'd have a main breaker, a few slots for breakers in the outside panel, plus the feed thru lugs to the main panel in the house. If you can find the right panel, this I think would be the better option because then you don't need to worry about more than 6 disconects and trying to find a 200 amp breaker to put on the panel to feed the house panel (you won't find it anyway). I believe the biggest breaker you can put in most panels for a branch circuit is about 125amps.
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:18 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wirenut1110 View Post
So the 100 amp breaker would be the "main breaker"
Why do this?
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyizit View Post
Why do this?
I would imagine he only has a 100 amp service, but would like to install a bigger panel prior to upgrading to a 200 amp service. At that time it would simply mean removing the 100 amp breaker and connecting the service to the 200 amp main.
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theatretch85 View Post
I would imagine he only has a 100 amp service, but would like to install a bigger panel prior to upgrading to a 200 amp service. At that time it would simply mean removing the 100 amp breaker and connecting the service to the 200 amp main.
Gotcha. Anticipating a later upgrade.
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Old 02-24-2009, 09:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theatretch85 View Post
I believe you should be able to find a 200 amp panel with feed thru lugs to use outside if you want. This way you'd have a main breaker, a few slots for breakers in the outside panel, plus the feed thru lugs to the main panel in the house. If you can find the right panel, this I think would be the better option because then you don't need to worry about more than 6 disconects and trying to find a 200 amp breaker to put on the panel to feed the house panel (you won't find it anyway). I believe the biggest breaker you can put in most panels for a branch circuit is about 125amps.
I have a 200A panel I installed that us currently a sub from my old pushmatic. If I installed a outdoor panel, I would be fine feeding my 200A panel with 100A, and then I would likely feed another sub directly from the outside panel. If I do the back feed, I can set this all up now with a back fed 100, and then just change over when I upgrade to 200A service by switching which breaker the SE cables land on.

I'd just like to get things cleaned up more, and pull out my old pushmatic panel, but am not ready yet to do the 200A service upgrade. I have a extra 100A breaker I could use to back feed to, so that might be a simple solution to go from meter to my 200A sub and just back feed with a 100A. Althought I would strongly perfer an external SE setup.

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Old 02-24-2009, 09:43 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theatretch85 View Post
I would imagine he only has a 100 amp service, but would like to install a bigger panel prior to upgrading to a 200 amp service. At that time it would simply mean removing the 100 amp breaker and connecting the service to the 200 amp main.
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Old 02-24-2009, 10:25 AM   #15
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Notice Chris said he didn't touch the outside service. That's because it is remaining a 100 amp service. The 200 amp mains rated panel can be lowered to a 100 amp mains rated panel by installing a backfed breaker on the branch circuit breaker busses in the back fed position. This allows him to continue to use the 100 amp service entrance and be ready to up grade to 200 amps by having a panel already in place.

I see this has already been explained by theatretech.

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