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Old 12-25-2012, 11:27 PM   #1
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Assistance with Wiring Diagram/circuits


I am having my second story remodeled and wanted to take a stab at the wiring diagram to be able to have a good understanding of what will take place and to be up to speed when the contractor lays out the plan.

Notes on circuits:

All (non-bathroom) receptacle outlets will be 20Amp AFCI breakers/#12 Romex

All (non-bathroom) lighting/fan fixture will be 15Amp/#12 Romex

Bathroom Vent/Heater will be dedicated 20Amp breaker/#12 Romex

Bathroom receptacles/lighting fixtures will be dedicated (first receptacle is GFCI) - 20Amp/#12 Romex

I live in Dallas, TX.

From my understanding, lighting/fan circuits could've been #14 Romex/15 Amp breakers

All lighting will be CFLs (understand the load per circuit is lower than needed - just trying to understand laying out the circuits)

The master bedroom has a circuit heading to the attic for a few light fixtures.

Apologies for any pertinent information left out and for the non-professional look/feel to the diagram.

Any/all comments will truly be appreciated.

Thank you,
Marc
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:16 AM   #2
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Assistance with Wiring Diagram/circuits


Quote:
Originally Posted by marcInDallas View Post
I am having my second story remodeled and wanted to take a stab at the wiring diagram to be able to have a good understanding of what will take place and to be up to speed when the contractor lays out the plan.
That will be a good way to let them know what you want for the layout.
Notes on circuits:

All (non-bathroom) receptacle outlets will be 20Amp AFCI breakers/#12 Romex
That will be fine

All (non-bathroom) lighting/fan fixture will be 15Amp/#12 Romex
That will be fine however you can have it on the 20 amp receptale circuits and I know the upstair part useally not loaded very heavy so you may have some leeway and by the way most Electricians will do this methold pretty common to keep the numbers of home runs low as possible unless there is speical situation then it will be dealt properly.

Bathroom Vent/Heater will be dedicated 20Amp breaker/#12 Romex
That is a very good plan and after the switch you will use the 12/3 NM cable and for the switch box you can use the 4 gang box otherwise two gang seperared box will work either way but if you going to use the 4 gang box just make a note in the switch box that you have two differnt circuits in there ( it pretty common to do that )

Bathroom receptacles/lighting fixtures will be dedicated (first receptacle is GFCI) - 20Amp/#12 Romex
The best methold I always use is run the bathroom circuit to the switch box then to the GFCI receptale otherwise you can keep the receptale it own circuit and use the lighting circuit from somewhere else so either way will work.
I live in Dallas, TX.

From my understanding, lighting/fan circuits could've been #14 Romex/15 Amp breakersJust see my note above it depending on how you run the circuits the key issue is the homeruns from first floor or basement level ( if you have it ) and the other thing with ceiling fans I always bring 14-3 or 12-3 NM's so you will have seperated switch for fan and lights ( this is a good reason in case the remote control go bonkers )

All lighting will be CFLs (understand the load per circuit is lower than needed - just trying to understand laying out the circuits)Normally I will sized the circuit by the maxuim wattage of recessed luminaries even thru you will be using the CFL or LED but some case you put in indentscent bulb in that something it will cover without overloading the circuit and if any time you going to use the dimmer make sure you get one that is comptable with CFL ditto with CFL lamp itself.

The master bedroom has a circuit heading to the attic for a few light fixtures.
Is there is a stairway or use the foldaway ladder in scuttle hole ? if stairway just tie them together so you will not forget to turn it off but scuttle door put a switch next to so you can able turn it on without fumble around to find a pull chain to turn them on.

Apologies for any pertinent information left out and for the non-professional look/feel to the diagram.

Any/all comments will truly be appreciated.

Thank you,
Marc
My answer is in Bleu.

Bear in your mind there will be other readers will chime in to give you more answer as well.

Merci,
Marc

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Old 12-26-2012, 07:01 AM   #3
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Don't forget smoke detectors.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:33 AM   #4
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I see a few places where you are pushing the receptacle spacing codes.

-In each of the smaller bedrooms on the wall close to the center of the house. You will need 2 receptacles on that wall if the length is over 12'.

-In the master bedroom (upper right hand corner). You need a receptacle within 6' of that door.

The code is that you need a receptacle on any wall greater than 2', 6' from any break in the wall, and 12' after the first receptacle.

The other thing I would like to point out is that closet lights have specific codes. There are distances (I would have too look up) you need to stay away from combustible materials. In the closet off the bathroom, you may get away with an incandescent fixture, but the smaller closet below the master you will need a fluorescent or LED specific fixture.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:24 AM   #5
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If you are going to use 15 amp for lighting then use #14 cable.

EVERYTHING in the bedroom (lights, smokes, receptacles etc.) needs to be AFCI. If you are on the newest code almost everything in living areas of the house also need AFCI.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:15 AM   #6
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If you are feeding all these circuits from the basement to the second story maybe putting a sub panel on the second floor would be a good idea. Then you won't have such long runs and the breakers are closer where work or maintenance needs to be done. Sometimes the cost savings on the long home runs alone will pay off to have a panel installed.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:20 AM   #7
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I'm very thankful for the info. I'll update the diagram tonight and repost for comments. Again, thanks to everyone for the comments.
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:18 PM   #8
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For just one room addition, you are not going to save much money using 14 gauge as opposed to running everything in 12 gauge.

Also it could take more time to run some circuits in 14 and others 12 -> keep having to look at the wiring diagrams as to which is which wire size. Also the possibility of a mistake - running 14 gauge where 12 gauge should have been run.

For my house I just run everything 12 gauge. Now if it was a large project of say 50 homes, then using smaller gauge where possible would add up to a big savings on the cost of wire.

If an electrician is running the wire, I would leave it up to him.

If you are running the wire, consider that you need to buy rolls of wire and there will be wire left over you did not need to use. So more wire could be left over if using two different size wires.

Also you get a price break if buying a larger size roll of wire. Say 250 ft. as opposed to a 50 ft. roll. (more expensive per ft.) In some stores you can buy wire by the foot - they cut off as much as you want. I don't know how much that is, but probably more per foot than buying a roll off the shelf.

Anyway you can get better prices at an electrical supply as opposed to a home improvement store. And wire is cheaper per foot in larger rolls. So in theory you could buy a large roll of 12 gauge at an electrical supply and the cost per foot would be less than 14 gauge sold by the foot in a hardware store.

If you have "more time than money", this could be an interesting thing to figure out. How many feet of each size you need. How much wire would be left over if buying a 1000 ft. roll, 500 ft. roll, 250 ft. rolls, 50 ft. rolls, etc. And the cost per foot for each of those.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:41 PM   #9
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@FrenchElectrician - adjusted for bathroom circuits to start in the switch box. No scuttle, stairs from first story (on the left side of pic) and stairs to third story (right side L-shaped stairs). Thank you for the comments

@brric - added and believe adheres to code (but will leave it to the electrician and inspector). Thank you for the feedback.

@k_buz - the walls are 11 feet (apologies for not having dimensions). Added receptacle next to the bathroom door. And will let electrician/inspector handle bathroom lighting. Thank you for the comments

@joed - Prob going with bulk wiring - all #12, but basing on costs of overall project. AFCI noted. Thank you for the comments

@rrolleston - good idea, will check with electrician on price comparison

@Billy_Bob - I'll leave it up to the electrician as to gauge (but agree, might be cheaper to buy all #12). Thanks for the comments

Updated diagram:
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:49 PM   #10
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I want to make a note to ya that when you installed the recessed luminaries just be aware that you have to use the enclosed shower trim ( check the specs on the lens for max wattage useally either 40 or 60 watt indentscent )

Also just remember in all the cloth closet make sure you have no bare indentscent luminaires that have to be enclosed it can be surfaced mount or recessed can ( that is the last thing I want to touch ) the Flourscent and LED can be bare.

Otherwise look pretty good what you got on the drawing so far.

Merci,
Marc
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Last edited by frenchelectrican; 12-27-2012 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:52 PM   #11
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Will do. Again, thank you for the assistance.
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:53 PM   #12
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I would never suggest to put recessed lighting that close to a ceiling fan (master bedroom). You will have moving shadows. It gets old quick.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:00 PM   #13
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But having the recessed lighting/fan further apart is typically okay? (see non-master bedroom) I have the flexibility to put them anywhere I want. And thanks for catching that, assuming it would drive me crazy... haha
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:03 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcInDallas View Post
But having the recessed lighting/fan further apart is typically okay? (see non-master bedroom) I have the flexibility to put them anywhere I want. And thanks for catching that, assuming it would drive me crazy... haha
Yep that will work keep them away further and also if you get the ceiling fan many time I do useally add a light kit to combat the dark centre spot as well.

Note: it pretty much my SOP to run 12-3 or 14-3 from switch box to the ceiling fan box for good reason due one switch for light kit and second switch for fan ( good darn reason in case remote control go bonkers )

Merci,
Marc
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:04 PM   #15
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Generally, I do not see recessed lighting and fans in the same room period. I'm not saying that it isn't done, but I don't see it.

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