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Old 11-20-2012, 06:41 PM   #1
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Arc fault and ground fault needed on same circuit


I have searched quite a bit on this and have come up empty. Hope someone here can help.

We are finishing a basement and we have wired the bedroom and bathroom lights on the same circuit. Bedroom lights need AFCI and bathroom lights need a GFCI if they are above a bath or shower, which they are in our case. Question is what type of breaker do I use? It is my understanding that AFCI breakers contain some GFCI protection (5 mA), but are not as sensitive as true GFCI breakers.

What is the right way to handle this? Do I need to split the circuits? I hope not as breaker slots are running out.

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Old 11-20-2012, 06:44 PM   #2
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Arc fault and ground fault needed on same circuit


Install the arc fault breaker, the use a dead front gfci to feed the light switch in the bath room.

Is it a local code to require the lights to be gfci protected?

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Old 11-20-2012, 06:54 PM   #3
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Arc fault and ground fault needed on same circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplybrianp View Post
I have searched quite a bit on this and have come up empty. Hope someone here can help.

We are finishing a basement and we have wired the bedroom and bathroom lights on the same circuit. Bedroom lights need AFCI and bathroom lights need a GFCI if they are above a bath or shower, which they are in our case. Question is what type of breaker do I use? It is my understanding that AFCI breakers contain some GFCI protection (5 mA), but are not as sensitive as true GFCI breakers.

What is the right way to handle this? Do I need to split the circuits? I hope not as breaker slots are running out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbfan View Post
Install the arc fault breaker, the use a dead front gfci to feed the light switch in the bath room.

Is it a local code to require the lights to be gfci protected?
JB.,

Let you know that the OP did mention it is their case they have to use the GFCI due they did stated above bath or shower.

Now Simplybrianp., What brand luminaire that you are plan to use this over the bath / shower set up and what the installment sheet mention about useing it?

Also how high it is from the floor as well?

Merci,
Marc
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:03 PM   #4
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Arc fault and ground fault needed on same circuit


I am installing 12v recessed low voltage cans in the cieling. One of them is above the shower enclosure. The ceiling height is about 7' 4".

I do not know specifically if the code requires the GFCI for that light, but the electrician we had wire the new service up said that over a bath or shower needed one.

I did not know about dead front GFCI. I could certainly use one of those, but with heat/vent and lights, I would end up with a 4 gang box for a 60 sq ft bathroom.

In looking at this, it seems odd to me that there would not be a breaker that could handle both, as I am sure many would not mind paying for it to reduce switchplate clutter and to provide additional safety.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:11 PM   #5
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Arc fault and ground fault needed on same circuit


There is nothing in the spec sheet for the fixture that mentions GFCI that I can find.

These are the lights.

The lights use a remote low voltage transformer, so the voltage at the light is only 12V. Similar to what is used outdoor garden lights. Not sure if that matters though.

Last edited by Simplybrianp; 11-20-2012 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:13 PM   #6
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Arc fault and ground fault needed on same circuit


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Originally Posted by Simplybrianp View Post
I am installing 12v recessed low voltage cans in the cieling. One of them is above the shower enclosure. The ceiling height is about 7' 4".

Ok that something I don't useally see very often but a good choice is 12 volt recessed but make sure you have shower trim on that one due the height is kinda in gray area.


I do not know specifically if the code requires the GFCI for that light, but the electrician we had wire the new service up said that over a bath or shower needed one.

If your luminaire installment sheet call to use the GFCI then you have to use it but if they say noting about it you can let it go unless it is admended in local code requirement.


I did not know about dead front GFCI. I could certainly use one of those, but with heat/vent and lights, I would end up with a 4 gang box for a 60 sq ft bathroom.

It kinda common item with dead front GFCI devices however., there is other issue it will come up is your heater/ vent / light that will useally required it own circuit.
I will post the photo what it look like in a bit.


In looking at this, it seems odd to me that there would not be a breaker that could handle both, as I am sure many would not mind paying for it to reduce switchplate clutter and to provide additional safety.
The dead front GFCI look like this.,




Of course they do come in few differnt colour as well.

For the switch box arrangment you can have 3 gang on one side and next to it is 2 gang or other way around and are you plan to install the vanity luminires as well ? that may change the arrangement a little.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:17 PM   #7
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Arc fault and ground fault needed on same circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by Simplybrianp View Post
There is nothing in the spec sheet for the fixture that mentions GFCI that I can find.

These are the lights.

The lights use a remote low voltage transformer, so the voltage at the light is only 12V. Similar to what is used outdoor garden lights. Not sure if that matters though.
I am not well verised with this one but I think you may get away from using the GFCI but take this info with grain of salt until you get couple guys whom they will know little more on Americian code than I do and the other issue is the remote transfomer where that is located ? ( you may end up need a way to get into it.)

BTW that is non IC verison so you can not have any insluationg materals touching this housing.

Merci,
Marc
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Old 11-21-2012, 06:12 AM   #8
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Arc fault and ground fault needed on same circuit


I believe it is a code violation to feed a bathroom and a bedroom from the same circuit. Also, unless I'm misunderstanding what you wrote, lighting circuits don't require an AFCI; only circuits that supply receptacles. Granted, bedroom lights and outlets are usually on one circuit, but not necessarily.


Last edited by md2lgyk; 11-21-2012 at 06:15 AM.
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