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Old 07-13-2009, 07:50 PM   #16
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Arc Fault Break Tripping when any light switch turned on


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Originally Posted by PaliBob View Post
L84D, Welcome to the Forum
Oh & just the other day - I spotted that the OLD_FIRM (I left the firm in 1989), now has a rather "major" website...
LINK REMOVED

Thus- if anyone "wishes" to check with them- yes I WAS- the TOP electrical student (as an adult apprentice of only 4yrs), & was thus sent to the National Fieldays at Mystery Creek, in Hamilton - in 1986, to represent the whole of Southland.

So - yes... I do know a wee thing or two - about elecricity.
;-)
Glad to be of assistance.
& Cheers.

Last edited by Termite; 07-14-2009 at 07:58 AM. Reason: site rules violation
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Old 07-13-2009, 08:11 PM   #17
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Arc Fault Break Tripping when any light switch turned on


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PS - its all in the "word" abbreviation (LATE FOR DINNER)
L8FDnR, Thanks, I should have seen that when you posted your License Plate Avatar.

You're right it looks like the OP has vanished. My sweet talking did not convince him to do the right thing by responding to the forum when he found the solution. Even if he made a dumb ass mistake like miswired the Neutral when he replaced the AFCI, he should have fessed up.

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Old 07-14-2009, 01:20 AM   #18
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Arc Fault Break Tripping when any light switch turned on


PaliBob.,

Most AFCI will trip if you have netrual conductor nicked or pintched that useally will trip unloaded circuit.

As I am pretty sure you have pretty good rescoures and yes SqD did have issue with early model of AFCI breakers IIRC the early one were green test button while the latter is bleu button verison.

( side note state of Wisconsin do not use the AFCI until 2010 )
(French electrical system used the RCD for majorty of circuits btw RCD simauir to GFCI /AFCI )

L84DnR.,

Welcome to the DIY chatroom fourm and I do have a freind he live in NZ area as well.

Merci,Marc
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:00 AM   #19
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Arc Fault Break Tripping when any light switch turned on


L84Dnr, please keep your posts on topic related to the original poster's thread. If you wish to introduce yourself or give your credentials you can do so in the introductions subforum.
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Old 07-14-2009, 12:52 PM   #20
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Arc Fault Break Tripping when any light switch turned on


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Originally Posted by frenchelectrican View Post
...SqD did have issue with early model of AFCI breakers IIRC the early one were green test button while the latter is bleu button verison.
Marc, I think you have that reversed. I believe the earlier version had the blue test button and the newer version has the green test button.
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Old 07-14-2009, 06:58 PM   #21
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Arc Fault Break Tripping when any light switch turned on


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Marc, I think you have that reversed. I believe the earlier version had the blue test button and the newer version has the green test button.

Merde!..

Thanks for correcting me I got two items switched around in my mind { I am used the European verison of SqD products and they are RCD and they are backward on me sorry about that }

I know for a fact the GFCI breakers { SqD } have yellow test button so they were never change at all.


Merci,Marc
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Old 07-14-2009, 07:16 PM   #22
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Arc Fault Break Tripping when any light switch turned on


And the new afci's (2005 and newer combination type) from square d are equipped with white test buttons..... I'm glad we have that settled

The recalled ones had blue test buttons.....
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Old 07-14-2009, 07:37 PM   #23
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Arc Fault Break Tripping when any light switch turned on


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And the new afci's (2005 and newer combination type) from square d are equipped with white test buttons..... I'm glad we have that settled

The recalled ones had blue test buttons.....

That is good to know with new AFCI's I will remember it.

Yeah that correct the bleu verison was recalled in USA but in France it was Green RCD they have issue with it for while but now clear up they changed to red button verison.

Merci,Marc
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:42 PM   #24
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Arc Fault Break Tripping when any light switch turned on


I remember learning that light switches with AFCI breakers was a bad idea because switches can create false arcs when they're flipped on causing the breaker to trip similar to when a lamp light bulb burns out on an AFCI and trips the breaker.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 07-15-2009, 12:45 PM   #25
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Arc Fault Break Tripping when any light switch turned on


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I remember learning that light switches with AFCI breakers was a bad idea because switches can create false arcs when they're flipped on causing the breaker to trip similar to when a lamp light bulb burns out on an AFCI and trips the breaker.

Just my 2 cents.
That's the whole "signature analysis" thing with AFCIs; distinguishing good arcs from bad arcs.
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Old 07-15-2009, 03:42 PM   #26
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Arc Fault Break Tripping when any light switch turned on


WOW ?.
Just as well something kept troubling me
Something within this... "problem"

I'v just re-read some (Un) advice?
above & WOW.?

(I say this to BOTH Bigplanz & Yoyizit)

WOW?
How do SOME PEOPLE continue "to_live"?

Bigplanz.
DO NOT EVER "simply"
TOSS ?
an aligator clip_wire onto- or JUMP_BYPASS ?

ANY PROTECTIVE ELECTRICAL DEVICE.

To do so- or to "instruct" another - could result in YOUR DEATH (or a charge of manslaughter if someone else DIES as a direct result of such sheer STUPIDITY)

Whether or NOT...?
That RCD is defective- will have NO EFFECT- if there is ANY OTHER FAULT
Which caused that unit to "fail" in the first instant.

Doing such a completely idiotic thing... simply means one thing & one thing ONLY.

YOU have completely removed ANY SAFETY FEATURE- between U (or someone else) AND DEATH.
HOW?

By removing the OVERLOAD, "SHORT_CIRCUIT" FUNCTION... that those devices ALSO "protect_against"... INSTANTLY makes the ENTIRE CIRCUIT liable to?

AND YES- wait for this "revelation"

WITHOUT satisfactory overload protection ?
THE subcircuits beyond that device WILL BE...

THEN "subjected" to tens of thousands of AMPS...
During an Instantainious "HIGH_FAULT_CURRENT" situation.

Oh & please do "not" assume - ?
that an electrical "fault" is going to wait ten minutes - (yeah ryt)

>>>???>>>
whilst U do a "check" in that fashion?

ANY MAJOR FAULT, which instantly trips a circuit protection device...
WILL FRY (not only) YOU,
BUT... YOUR HOUSE WIRING AND YOUR HOUSE.
Before YOU can remove that "JUMPER" wire.

& Yoyizit...
DELEBERATLY TEASING "any" switch to "CREATE" an arc- ?

Does in itself...
NOT TEST FOR A FAULY SWITCH?

BUT - IT DOES CREATE ONE.

PLUS... You will "also" HEAT the unit unnescessarily
CAUSING ANOTHER POSSIBLE RISK-
a "delayed" action - "Wall fire".

Same result- A burnt down house.

Oh yes... a RADIO will "hear" THAT ARC? BUT it is a DELIBERATE ARC... not a "fault" ARC.

Can U tell the difference?

THE RADIO CAN NOT.

Please, please- all of U so_called- do_gooder "COWBOYS"
Go & play with Ur animals...

NOT ELECTRICITY.
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Old 07-15-2009, 03:57 PM   #27
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Arc Fault Break Tripping when any light switch turned on


Causes of death

1000/day from smoking
250/day from hospitals
160/day from guns
110/day die on the highways
14/day from food poisoning
4/day from electrocutions

170/yr from CO poisoning
55/yr from lightning

1 injury in 50 yrs from a meterorite

Here's some homework for ya', Mr. R
http://www.probability.ca/sbl/

As to house fires, dividing your fire insurance premium by the replacement value of your house will approximate the likelihood of a house fire for any reason, per year.

It should be impossible to tease a good switch; there is a built-in snap action, the effect being the same as what hysteresis gives you.

Last edited by Yoyizit; 07-15-2009 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 07-15-2009, 04:17 PM   #28
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Arc Fault Break Tripping when any light switch turned on


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Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
L84Dnr, please keep your posts on topic related to the original poster's thread. If you wish to introduce yourself or give your credentials you can do so in the introductions subforum.
?
thekctermite
Building codes guy, Mod

?

I'm sorry- apart from THIS one- in reply to UR off topic?

WHICH ONE IS OFF (in mine)?
ALL relate to the problem...

SURE ?
We here in NZ - know you AMERICANS "often" call items, such as these something (utterly) stupid?

?
Arc Fault Breaker (indeed)

THESE are NOTHING BUT:-
a "residual current device, formally known as an EARTH LEAKAGE BREAKER (also) incorporating a "set" overload rating...ie:- 20AMPS. 3kva (fault rating =) or say 63a 6kva - or the ones I USED TO INSTALL- upwards of 2,000 amp 50kva rating... so (please) do not tell me- I am "off' topic.

AS I WAS trying to say - (AS AN INDUSTRIAL ELECTRICIAN) - I know these devices, how they function, why they "function" ( & OR FAIL ), & how they are made? & I know this backwards.

PLUS... some OFF topics already exist?

As like JUMPER WIRING a "protective" device... does NOTHING to find a fault & actually CREATES extreme DEATH & FIRE RISK.

Plus teasing sw's of ANY sort...
Actually finds NO FAULT- BUT it "creates" FUTURE faults, burns sw contacts, & creates latent "ARC_sparks", (which can inside your walls & other cavities.. smolder for several HOURS & OR DAYS, un-noticed, ???
& LATER BURN YOUR HOUSE DOWN.

SO.
Is that NOT relevant... when telling (someone) the correct method to "repair"

(AND WHY NOT TO DO IT WRONG).

Electricity is NOT a toy.
Please no-one- DO NOT PLAY WITH UR LIFE, & anyone elses.
Safety_protection Residual earth leakage current devices (incorporating an OVERLOAD device),

AND ANY OTHER SW-BD related devices are there to "protect" YOU.

NOTHING (else) protects U from the tens of thousands OF instantainious HIGH_FAULT currents,
that WILL occur...
If U try to "jumper" (bypass), or "tease" these & get it WRONG.
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Old 07-15-2009, 04:21 PM   #29
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Arc Fault Break Tripping when any light switch turned on


Quote:
Originally Posted by Yoyizit View Post
Causes of death

1000/day from smoking
250/day from hospitals
160/day from guns
110/day die on the highways
14/day from food poisoning
4/day from electrocutions

170/yr from CO poisoning
55/yr from lightning

1 injury in 50 yrs from a meterorite

Here's some homework for ya', Mr. R
http://www.probability.ca/sbl/

As to house fires, dividing your fire insurance premium by the replacement value of your house will approximate the likelihood of a house fire for any reason, per year.

It should be impossible to tease a good switch; there is a built-in snap action, the effect being the same as what hysteresis gives you.
3 onehundred THOUSANDTHS of a second- is ALL it takes- to consume an entire room- in an electrical switchboard "HIGH_FAULT EXPLOSION.?
I don't care if u smoke, have cancer- even parachute jump- without ur parachute
0.0003secs is a very QUICK way to die.
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Old 07-15-2009, 04:55 PM   #30
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Arc Fault Break Tripping when any light switch turned on


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That's the whole "signature analysis" thing with AFCIs; distinguishing good arcs from bad arcs.
Ah- so? (I'll play dumb here- as I KNOW the answer)
These AFCI's that U americans use (on Ur lower voltage 120v - we use 240v/415volt in NZ), DO THEY "somehow tell the difference, between the "sort circuit "arc" of the capacitive "trickle leackage fault, caused by poor insulation, or he NORMAL running current of say a 15watt pilot bulb, as well as the "teasing" arc, from some idiot trying to BURN the contacts of what WAS a good switch, from THAT of the INCREDIBLY OBVIOUS "large arc's always occurring INSIDE Ur wife's VACUUM CLEANER MOTOR, as well as telling?
NO?
it does not.
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