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Old 03-01-2011, 02:32 PM   #16
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Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


Those of us old enough to remember the gas crisis of the 70's can tell you only greed took us to a situation where a Hummer became a good idea.

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... But we must be realistic. ...I predict anarchy and angry protesters in the streets of the US...
Why now??? We should already be in the streets regarding this federal deficit that has been growing since the 1940's

Wife already has a hybrid. I have issues with it because being in the Indianapolis area it takes more than 20 minutes (while driving) to heat up to provide adequate heat. I'd hope a PHEV and for sure an EV doesn't have this shortcoming.

So a 3-pole 480v breaker must run on a 3 phase circuit, I gather. I have to really evaluate my essential loads panel configuration plan that I am working on now. EV I have to include; PHEV not...?

So far no one has an EV?

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Old 03-01-2011, 03:09 PM   #17
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So far no one has an EV?

as close as it's going to get.



ev cars are a scam IMO. Not only is the science of batteries woefully inadequate to be an appropriate solution, everybody seems to miss the part about having to produce electricity to charge the vehicles. So, we are going to tax our already dilapidated power grid and use additional fuel to produce that power.

I have seen very little concerning the environmental impact of ev's, at least in terms of byproducts of the manufacturing and the disposal of the batteries. That will be a big problem right after EV's become commonplace.

I'm kind of curious what happens to a 400 pound battery when the car surrounding it gets into a serious accident.

Then, while an article I just read said GM was working to engineer the battery so it will last 10 years or 150k miles (and notice; they are working on that goal, not that they have achieved it), we all know how promises go.
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Old 03-01-2011, 04:06 PM   #18
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as close as it's going to get.



ev cars are a scam IMO. Not only is the science of batteries woefully inadequate to be an appropriate solution, everybody seems to miss the part about having to produce electricity to charge the vehicles. So, we are going to tax our already dilapidated power grid and use additional fuel to produce that power.

I have seen very little concerning the environmental impact of ev's, at least in terms of byproducts of the manufacturing and the disposal of the batteries. That will be a big problem right after EV's become commonplace.

I'm kind of curious what happens to a 400 pound battery when the car surrounding it gets into a serious accident.

Then, while an article I just read said GM was working to engineer the battery so it will last 10 years or 150k miles (and notice; they are working on that goal, not that they have achieved it), we all know how promises go.
Don't know officially but I thought batteries were made of recyclable materials? Although don't know what's involved and what byproducts come from it. Basically they have all wasted 30 years. Grid and vehicles

This was first plan:


WORSE CASE SCENARIO, I have enough land to buy a horse.
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Old 03-01-2011, 06:40 PM   #19
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Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


well, it depends on what type of batteries you speak of.

Yes, a lithium ion battery is not only recyclable, it is considered safe to toss in landfills. I do not know if it is financially practical to recycle them at this time though.

Many other batteries are not so eco friendly.

You also have the manufacturing processes involved. That is where a lot of eco-hazardous products come from; byproducts of the manufacturing processes. I'll have to do some research and give a more informed answer. Right now, it's dinner time.
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Old 03-01-2011, 07:37 PM   #20
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Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


There was a guy at the ogle county energy fair that has been running an S-10 truck on electric for some time, strictly a low tech design.

http://www.illinoisrenew.org/

I can't seem to find any info on it right now. ( EDIT !!...google s-10 electric and there's info there)

I seem to remember that he said you have to keep track of your mileage and pay the road taxes that would ordinarily be in the price of gas.

Right now my guzzler truck get 15 mpg on short trips so I try to combine errands.

I order more items online as its many times cheaper , takes less time to find and no gas needed.

The Pickens plan is to use compressed natural gas in the 18 wheelers and that would free up enough gasoline that we shouldn't have to import any.

That will buy us time till we come up with a new method of energy ..electric ..??

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Old 03-01-2011, 11:50 PM   #21
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The required (at least for Nissan Leaf) is 240v 40 amps. Which is the equivalent of me leaving my oven on all night. If this is the case why would this be a huge drain on the current grid? You'd think most people would charge vehicle at night. Adaptation would be slow short of gas/petro cars starting to cost a lot more.

I saw a show on Discovery where a guy converted a Land Rover to all electric. Now there is the truck I need!

Road taxes???
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:55 AM   #22
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The required (at least for Nissan Leaf) is 240v 40 amps. Which is the equivalent of me leaving my oven on all night. If this is the case why would this be a huge drain on the current grid? You'd think most people would charge vehicle at night. Adaptation would be slow short of gas/petro cars starting to cost a lot more.
:
have you taken a minute to calculate how much power that is for one car? a million cars? 25 million cars (10% of the current number of cars on the road today)?
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Old 03-02-2011, 09:47 AM   #23
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have you taken a minute to calculate how much power that is for one car? a million cars? 25 million cars (10% of the current number of cars on the road today)?
True, I've been in a few A/C triggered "brown outs." I guess I am a little confused between production and delivery. Most issues I thought were issues with production keeping up with demand.

Oil is trading $100.75 barrel 03/02/11 09:31
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:50 PM   #24
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True, I've been in a few A/C triggered "brown outs." I guess I am a little confused between production and delivery. Most issues I thought were issues with production keeping up with demand.

Oil is trading $100.75 barrel 03/02/11 09:31
well, it seems the Chevy Volt has sold about 3300 units this year. GM was intending on producing only 10k this year but has since increased the target several times. They hope to produce 25k units this year and for some reason, 120,000 units next year.



Unless the sales figures somehow increase drastically, their goal for 2012 is a bit overly optimistic IMO.

Nissan sold 67 Leafs in February.

Unless they have a little group of about 100 people assembling these in their backyards, that production facility is terribly underutilized.

Since suppliers work on mass quantities of product as the means to keep parts supply costs low and since the target demographic for these vehicles is middle class America, there are likely a lot of parts floating around for both of these vehicles waiting to be assembled into cars.


From what I understand, both manufacturers are intentionally producing small numbers currently. It performs at least a couple purposes; 1. when a problem is found (which is just about inevitable), there will be fewer units to recall and repair and 2. it makes good hype to say the demand is overwhelming supply, even if it is intentionally caused by the manufacturer.
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Old 03-02-2011, 04:20 PM   #25
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My hesitancy with a Leaf or the Tesla Model S; I cannot get to Chicago. As far as I know there are no charging stations in-between our cities. Let alone charging station in Chicago so I can get around. Nissan with 67 units is expected if you ask me. No infrastructure. I could lease a Leaf but it would be a commuter only! Not sure if you lease or buy the Tesla. Current lease ends in about 2 years. Really need a truck.

Back to the electrical part. The Generac essential loads panel has 16 circuits of which my original plan was well mapped out. Trying to cover all the bases:
  1. Run wire for 240v at 50 amps (CHECK)
  2. Leave double-pole space open in panel for appropriate breaker (CHECK)
  3. Next the question arises of back-up power?
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Old 03-02-2011, 06:27 PM   #26
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Road taxes???
You Betcha http://www.infrastructurist.com/2011...ad-of-gas-tax/
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Old 03-05-2011, 06:20 PM   #27
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Ok, what do you need to minimally get 220v power say to run a water heater housing batteries, inverter and a windmill to recharge? Not for car but have idea to skip PHEV or EV altogether :smile:

Run time is 5 hours, before recharge. Will need to run once a week.

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Old 03-05-2011, 06:48 PM   #28
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is that in some sort of code?

I have no idea what you are asking or what the post means in general.
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Old 03-05-2011, 10:32 PM   #29
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is that in some sort of code?

I have no idea what you are asking or what the post means in general.
Sorry I was using my Android phone

Just watched documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car" OOOhh I am real upset now!

1977 US IMPORTED 8.8 MILLION BARRELS PER DAY

2005 US IMPORTED 13.5 MILLION BARRELS PER DAY

I am now thinking of every option to break my gasoline addiction.

Can I use this to charge the array to charge an EV daily, provided I have enough wind or sunlight? I live in central Indiana and wind chart says I am in the 5.1 to 11.5 mph average. We have a massive windmill farm fields just a few miles north of us.

http://www.bergey.com/pages/12_kw_hybrid_system

Comes with a 10.6 Kwh battery pack, 220v at 40 amps is 8.8Kw so is that also 8.8 Kwh?

Goal would be to connect to vehicle charging system exclusively.
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Old 03-06-2011, 12:08 AM   #30
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I had some friends working on one of the windmill parks down/over there (I'm up by Notre Dame).



a kW is an instantaneous rating of power being produced. A kWh is a cumulative amount of power created. If you generate 1kW for 1 hour, you have produced 1 kWh.

the system you linked is a 1.2kW system (I presume at full capacity)


if the vehicle takes 8.8kW for 5 hours to charge, that is 44kWh. If it specs a 40 amp circuit, it isn't going to be the full 40 amps. Given it will be considered a continual use circuit, it shouldn't be over 35 amps (80% of the 40 amp circuit) so it would more likely be 35kWh or less. So, for the system you linked to be able to charge the car, it would take about 30 hours at full capacity of your hybrid gen system.

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