Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-28-2011, 12:09 PM   #1
Still going...
 
ChrisDIY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Indianapolis Area
Posts: 985
Rewards Points: 500
Blog Entries: 19
Default

Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


Hello!

Anybody going to move or have moved to a PHEV or an EV? With the cost of gasoline soon to hit $4 to $5 moving to electric may be a good idea.

The Nissan Leaf requires a 240v 40 amp circuit charging station. The kicker is it costs $2,500 and they require that it's installed and prove it even before you can take the car home. The PHEV (plug-in hybrid electric vehicle) is more to my liking and there will be a few offered in the 2012 line-up. Some will get 124 mpg in PHEV and around 60 miles on EV.

With all the electrical modifications I am doing I think I need to make this accommodation. Some info suggests faster charging times with 480v. No clue what that looks like but I need to leave 4 circuits open. Whether to include in generator essential circuits, now that's a conundrum.

__________________
--Chris the DIY Guy

Master Bath, still going...
ChrisDIY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 12:57 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,508
Rewards Points: 2,004
Default

Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


I hope your wrong about the gas prices as I drive a Ram 5.7 liter truck. Prices like that will bring this economy to its knees. Our economy cannot stand with gas prices that high. I hope you are wrong.

As far as the charging stations. They will be very simple to install and all you will need is the correct plug and receptacle for your vehicle. I cannot see how they could withhold delivery of a vehicle to ensure NEC compliance. Last I heard the NEC was in charge of this install, not a car manufacturer.

Are you saying they build the stations and the consumer installs them? I may be confused with your statements.

I can say this with certainty. Should gasoline hit $5.00 a gallon. The US will cease to exist. Or country was not designed to run on $5.00 a gallon gas prices.

J. V. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 01:03 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 152
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDIY View Post
Hello!

Anybody going to move or have moved to a PHEV or an EV? With the cost of gasoline soon to hit $4 to $5 moving to electric may be a good idea.

The Nissan Leaf requires a 240v 40 amp circuit charging station. The kicker is it costs $2,500 and they require that it's installed and prove it even before you can take the car home. The PHEV (plug-in hybrid electric vehicle) is more to my liking and there will be a few offered in the 2012 line-up. Some will get 124 mpg in PHEV and around 60 miles on EV.

With all the electrical modifications I am doing I think I need to make this accommodation. Some info suggests faster charging times with 480v. No clue what that looks like but I need to leave 4 circuits open. Whether to include in generator essential circuits, now that's a conundrum.
I actually know a guy who is leasing an all electric BMW Mini (read about the program here: http://electricmini.blogspot.com/) who had the charger installed in his garage. The car will charge on 120V via a regular household plug but it takes something like 18 hours. The 240V charger takes 3 hours. 480V would definitely speed it up but you'd likely need some industrial strength wiring? Not really sure. 240V setups are common enough in homes for things like dryers, ranges, welders, etc...you might be better off just sticking with that. Plus, there is likely an upper limit to how fast the battery can accept the charge. The best thing about the guy I mentioned above is that he has a 10kW solar installation so he sells power back to the grid AND charges his car. Pretty slick.
Badfish740 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 08:39 PM   #4
Still going...
 
ChrisDIY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Indianapolis Area
Posts: 985
Rewards Points: 500
Blog Entries: 19
Default

Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
I hope your wrong about the gas prices as I drive a Ram 5.7 liter truck. Prices like that will bring this economy to its knees. Our economy cannot stand with gas prices that high. I hope you are wrong.
I hope I am wrong as well, however I am concerned about the stability of the middle east. Gas shot up as soon as conflict arose in Libya. What happens if it spreads to Saudi Arabia? I don't think they are concerned about our economy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
As far as the charging stations. They will be very simple to install and all you will need is the correct plug and receptacle for your vehicle. I cannot see how they could withhold delivery of a vehicle to ensure NEC compliance. Last I heard the NEC was in charge of this install, not a car manufacturer.

Are you saying they build the stations and the consumer installs them? I may be confused with your statements.
No, I am in planning stage. I was reading that having a charger installed by a licensed electrician is required before you can "acquire" one. I am leaning toward whoever will make a diesel PHEV. Forward thinking for future sustainability of bio-diesel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
I can say this with certainty. Should gasoline hit $5.00 a gallon. The US will cease to exist. Or country was not designed to run on $5.00 a gallon gas prices.
Cease to exist, watch movie I.O.U.S.A., gas is the least of concern...

Badfish740, from what I see a 480v breaker uses 3 poles couldn't guess on wire size, but as these become common consumer products this is going to need to be tackled.
__________________
--Chris the DIY Guy

Master Bath, still going...

Last edited by ChrisDIY; 02-28-2011 at 09:07 PM.
ChrisDIY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 09:15 PM   #5
Electrical Contractor
 
jbfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Newnan GA
Posts: 5,860
Rewards Points: 2,116
Default

Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


Unless you live in an industrial area, 480 volt, 3 phase will never happen in your home.

You will just have to be happy with the 240 volt charger.
__________________
Yes I am a Pirate, 200 years too late. "Jimmy Buffett"
jbfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 10:02 PM   #6
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,042
Rewards Points: 2,054
Default

Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


When was the middle east ever stable .... ?? Gas prices will continue to go up to the point where the oil companies think they can sustain it. I'm thinkin some where in the mid 3 to 4 dollar range. It is a certainty that the USA will not see a return to under 3 dollar gas in the near future. There is no reason for the gas to be this high but ya better get use to it. These bumps in the road like what is happening in the middle east will continue to leverage the USA into higher gas prices. It is very opportunistic for the oil companies and OPEC. They will always use these events to raise the price of oil. Get use to it but don't get paranoid.

I and the vast majority of Americans have little use for electric or hybrids. 90% of the sales are to the government as fleets. The technology is very knew to the rigors of public use under uncontrolled environments and it will be expensive for you to drive an electric. Do yourself a favor, if your concerned about gas , and purchase a 40 mpg vehicle with a gas engine. Let the technology develop and the prices will come down for for electrics and hybrids. Right now it is going to cost you to go electric over gas after all they average about 5000 to 7000 more than gas power and the cost of a charging station is about 2000 to 2500 bucks. Also remember the POCOs are very concerned about the electric grid when all these millions of electrics start connecting to chargers. I should say they are concerned about whether the price for electricity will offset the cost to them for upgrades. Soooo electric is bound to increase in cost. And your going to have to pay the charger just like a parking meter when at work or play.

Oh I forgot to mention ... do not fall for the tax incentive argument for purchasing a PHEV or EV.
__________________
" One nice thing about the NEC articles ... you have lots of choices"

Stubbie

Last edited by Stubbie; 02-28-2011 at 10:22 PM.
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 10:28 PM   #7
Still going...
 
ChrisDIY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Indianapolis Area
Posts: 985
Rewards Points: 500
Blog Entries: 19
Default

Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


Stubbie,

Thanks for the reply. I am aiming for one of the PHEV which in theory can avoid being plugged in altogether. I think the argument to keep using gas needs to go... I agree on your point but if we don't move off of gas we are all potentially in for a shock. Have to look it up but there is major difference in cost of gas between US and Europe, do you happen to know why?

http://www.plugincars.com/cars
__________________
--Chris the DIY Guy

Master Bath, still going...
ChrisDIY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 10:42 PM   #8
nap
You talking to me?
 
nap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: sw mi
Posts: 5,407
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


Quote:
J. V.;599708]I hope your wrong about the gas prices as I drive a Ram 5.7 liter truck. Prices like that will bring this economy to its knees. Our economy cannot stand with gas prices that high. I hope you are wrong.
you might want to invest in some pain relieving ointment to apply liberally to your nether regions.

Quote:
As far as the charging stations. They will be very simple to install and all you will need is the correct plug and receptacle for your vehicle. I cannot see how they could withhold delivery of a vehicle to ensure NEC compliance. Last I heard the NEC was in charge of this install, not a car manufacturer.
it isn't anything to do with the proper installation. It's just that they will not release the car unless there is a charger. It is simply part of the sale agreement.



Quote:
I can say this with certainty. Should gasoline hit $5.00 a gallon. The US will cease to exist. Or country was not designed to run on $5.00 a gallon gas prices.
so far it appears a lot of prognosticators are saying about $3.75 peak for this year. Of course, a lot depends on the political problems in the mid-east. If things don't escalate much beyond where they are now, tensions will ease and oil will stop climbing. If something happens to add stress to the situation, I'm afraid the sky's the limit.
nap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 11:00 PM   #9
Still going...
 
ChrisDIY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Indianapolis Area
Posts: 985
Rewards Points: 500
Blog Entries: 19
Default

Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


Quote:
Originally Posted by nap View Post
...so far it appears a lot of prognosticators are saying about $3.75 peak for this year. Of course, a lot depends on the political problems in the mid-east. If things don't escalate much beyond where they are now, tensions will ease and oil will stop climbing. If something happens to add stress to the situation, I'm afraid the sky's the limit.
Let's keep our fingers, toes, legs, arms, and eyes crossed!!!
__________________
--Chris the DIY Guy

Master Bath, still going...
ChrisDIY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 11:00 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: west of chicago
Posts: 395
Rewards Points: 274
Default

Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


$2500 for a battery charger is insane, but come to think of it an electric car

touted as green technology is insane also.

A car that runs on natural gas would make more sense ...but I can only eat

so much chili.
High Gear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2011, 11:06 PM   #11
Still going...
 
ChrisDIY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Indianapolis Area
Posts: 985
Rewards Points: 500
Blog Entries: 19
Default

Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


Quote:
Originally Posted by High Gear View Post
$2500 for a battery charger is insane, but come to think of it an electric car

touted as green technology is insane also.

A car that runs on natural gas would make more sense ...but I can only eat

so much chili.
The only real "green" vehicle is the Fred Flinstonemobile. The more I think about that cartoon they got a lot of sustained movement from just a little running/peddling!

In all seriousness, short of walking or bicycling we have to drive. Electric cars create battery issues. We can't win for losing. PHEV sounds like the best solution until H2O powered.
__________________
--Chris the DIY Guy

Master Bath, still going...
ChrisDIY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 07:19 AM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 152
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisDIY View Post
The only real "green" vehicle is the Fred Flinstonemobile. The more I think about that cartoon they got a lot of sustained movement from just a little running/peddling!

In all seriousness, short of walking or bicycling we have to drive. Electric cars create battery issues. We can't win for losing. PHEV sounds like the best solution until H2O powered.
If you're a mechanically inclined person which you seem to be, how about either making your own biodiesel, or (even better in my opinion) converting your vehicle to run on straight vegetable oil (SVO). I converted my F-350 three years ago. It still uses diesel for startup and shutdown so I can always use diesel if I choose.
Badfish740 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 08:57 AM   #13
Still going...
 
ChrisDIY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Indianapolis Area
Posts: 985
Rewards Points: 500
Blog Entries: 19
Default

Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


My motivations have no connections to GREEN technology. After learning about our incredible trade deficit I want to do my part to get off foreign oil. At least all our electricity is made over here.
__________________
--Chris the DIY Guy

Master Bath, still going...
ChrisDIY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 11:42 AM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,508
Rewards Points: 2,004
Default

Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


I am all for getting off our oil addiction. But we must be realistic. This country was not designed or built for high gas prices. Europe is built for high fuel prices. They have bullet trains and mass transportation all over Europe and some parts of Asia. We don't.
Should gasoline hit $5.00 a gallon, I predict anarchy and angry protesters in the streets of the US. People drive cars in the US. We don't ride trains and we have to get to work.
J. V. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2011, 12:23 PM   #15
Jack of all - master none
 
hyunelan2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: SW Suburbs of Chicago
Posts: 1,214
Rewards Points: 514
Default

Anyone wiring garage for PHEV or EV?


Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
People drive cars in the US. We don't ride trains and we have to get to work.
Necessity is the mother of invention. If sustained high prices become the norm, people will change. They will have to. As long as there is an option to change to, that is. Urban areas will be the most likely to make changes easily, as suburban commuters have options they just don't use right now.

For those living out in the more rural areas of the country, life is going to get hard. There is a reason my wife and I live close to where we work (me 1 mile, her 4 miles). I never understood why better fuel economy in a vehicle is the only solution ever mentioned - getting a shorter commute is a much easier solution. I could drive a 5mpg guzzler if I wanted, and still use 1/2 the gas getting to and from work than someone with a 50mpg hybrid and a 20-mile commute. Of course, it doesn't work for every situation, but it's something more should pay attention to.


On the main topic, running a 40a 240v circuit out into the garage should not be entirely difficult, unless you are in a conduit-requiring area (then it's only slightly more difficult). Without doing research, I think an 8/3 NM cable would do it (don't rely on me, verify that). Depending on how far away your box is, maybe $100-$150 in materials if you are DIY capable.





P.S. I love my truck.

hyunelan2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
question about wiring basement with garage panel 1acman Electrical 4 01-19-2011 11:44 AM
Wiring house to garage stonehaven Electrical 7 06-02-2010 06:19 PM
wiring code w.r.t. NEW folding stairs in garage attic fredsterl Electrical 4 09-25-2009 11:05 PM
Wiring garage workshop Kay Man Electrical 10 08-28-2008 12:04 PM
Wiring my garage with direct burial cable? Earl Smith Electrical 3 08-10-2008 06:28 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.