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-   -   Any Slim/Half-Sized Arc Fault Circuit Interupters (AFCI) yet? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/any-slim-half-sized-arc-fault-circuit-interupters-afci-yet-177460/)

ppeetteerr 04-18-2013 09:31 AM

Any Slim/Half-Sized Arc Fault Circuit Interupters (AFCI) yet?
 
Are there any Slim/Half-Sized AFCIs available in type BR. I didn't think to check before I started. I have two circuits and only one (full-sized) space for it.

kbsparky 04-18-2013 10:11 AM

Not likely. Those things are full of circuitry and as such, need all the space they can get.

Another reason to avoid any panels which depend on those half-pint breakers to provide maximum circuit capacity.

ppeetteerr 04-18-2013 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbsparky (Post 1161942)
Not likely. Those things are full of circuitry and as such, need all the space they can get.

If I replace the panel do I need to add afci circuits to the upstairs circuits? I'll call the code office when I've got time but I'll be on hold there longer than a response takes here. :)

The other option is that there is a GFCI circuit in the mechanical room (only powers there and one outlet in the garage) that I could run the bathroom GFCI to. The bathroom is on the other side of the wall and the lights in the bathroom are powered off of another circuit so the amount of streaking that would be involved would be minimal. I'm not crazy about it but it tempts me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbsparky (Post 1161942)
Another reason to avoid any panels which depend on those half-pint breakers to provide maximum circuit capacity.

There's a couple of things in the house that make me wish I had a time machine to go back and slap the contractor. I'm just trying to make it so the next owner doesn't want to go back 10 years and slap me around.

htae 04-18-2013 01:54 PM

You can just get tandum breakers for other circuits to make room for two arc fault breakers. Just be sure to pay attention to shared neutrals. You don't want to take two circuits that are sharing a neutral and put them on the same bus, you'll overload the neutral.

ppeetteerr 04-18-2013 02:02 PM

Unfortunately, the panel I have has 12 spaces and 24 circuits. Which means the AFCI breakers eat up spaces rather quickly.

htae 04-18-2013 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ppeetteerr (Post 1161953)
If I replace the panel do I need to add afci circuits to the upstairs circuits?

Arc fault is only required for bedroom receptacles, so if that's what these circuits are for then yes, you will need them. How many receptacles in total? I would combine them if it's 12 or less and then you only need one breaker

Philly Master 04-18-2013 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htae (Post 1162098)
Arc fault is only required for bedroom receptacles, so if that's what these circuits are for then yes, you will need them. How many receptacles in total? I would combine them if it's 12 or less and then you only need one breaker

ACFI's are for ALL CIRCUITS .... unless your on 2005 code ... less the kitchen, or 2 pole breakers ...

most of the inspectors ... will allow a panel replacement without requiring ACFI's ....but if you add anything then that will need to be ACFI ...if needed

htae 04-18-2013 02:27 PM

Where are you located ppertteerr?

So, does this mean that there are no shared neutrals anymore?

Philly Master 04-18-2013 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htae (Post 1162111)
Where are you located ppertteerr?

So, does this mean that there are no shared neutrals anymore?

Correct

htae 04-18-2013 02:37 PM

What about lighting and inductive loads?
Do you have a code reference?

rrolleston 04-18-2013 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htae (Post 1162111)
Where are you located ppertteerr?

So, does this mean that there are no shared neutrals anymore?

There are 2 pole AFCI's if you have MWBC that need to be protected with AFCI and it may help to check with your local code enforcement office. Maybe areas are not requiring AFCI's for panel changes.

ppeetteerr 04-18-2013 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htae (Post 1162111)
Where are you located ppertteerr?

I'm in Salt Lake Utah. The last time I spoke with the code office I was told I needed AFCI's for new work in bedrooms but not in living rooms, dens, etc... I guess I could combine them. Although it would be more than I like. I have 12 receptacles on one circuit and 3 (plus 4 9 watt lights) on another.

rrolleston 04-18-2013 02:48 PM

Eventually everything in the house will require AFCI including kitchen. And dishwashers and washing machines will have to also be on GFCI. I can see the need for a breaker that does GFCI and AFCI with this new code coming out. But it may be a while for many towns to adopt the new code. I have not even had to deal with any AFCI breakers at all yet in my area.

k_buz 04-18-2013 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly Master (Post 1162101)
ACFI's are for ALL CIRCUITS

Not true for the 2008 or 2011 editions of the NEC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by htae (Post 1162111)

So, does this mean that there are no shared neutrals anymore?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philly Master (Post 1162118)
Correct

Not correct. There are no codes eliminating MWBC. It is true they would have to be on a 2P breaker, but these are being produced by some manufacturers today. You could also feed a AFCI receptacle assuming you meet the requirements to use an AFCI receptacle.

Philly Master 04-18-2013 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k_buz (Post 1162157)
Not true for the 2008 or 2011 editions of the NEC.




"ACFI's are for ALL CIRCUITS .... unless your on 2005 code ... less the kitchen, or 2 pole breakers ..."

should have read .....

ACFI's are for ALL CIRCUITS .... less the kitchen, or 2 pole breakers ...unless your on 2005 code ....


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