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Old 06-24-2012, 06:51 AM   #16
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another "help me with a subpanel" topic


Type NM-B is cannot be used at greater than it's 60 degree rating.

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Old 06-24-2012, 08:16 AM   #17
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another "help me with a subpanel" topic


Twlo things I see:

1) The wire to the ground rods needs to be minumum #6 CU.
2) I wouldn't bother installing a receptacle for a future welder. Wait until you get the welder so you have the specific specs.
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:36 PM   #18
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another "help me with a subpanel" topic


The reason I want to go with 100 amps is that I might install a welder in the future and I am going to be installing a pool so the pool will probably be powered from the shed sub panel. I rather have it and not need than need it and not have it. So here is the new and improved plan tell me what you think.

Shed power 100amp

100 amp DP CB in main box

2 hots #3, 1 #4 neutral, and 1 #6 ground THHN/THWN through 1 1/4 pvc conduit from the main breaker to the shed. Can I buy all black #3 wire and mark the wire ends with colored electrical tape the last 12" on either end?

1 Square D 100 amp subpanel in shed with 100 amp main breaker as a disconnect

1 20 amp CB in subpanel for 5 shop lights and 2 outdoor lights

1 20 amp GFCI CB in subpanel for receptacles

1 20 amp CB with a GFCI receptacle for a 6000-8000 btu A/C, I can probably power the A/C off the regular receptacles but some of my power tools draw 15 amps and I just want to play it safe.

1 30 or 50 amp CB for welder---maybe

2 grounding rods 6ft apart attached to subpanel via #6 wire





or if I want to a 60 amp install


60 amp DP CB in main box

2 hots, 1 neutral #6 awg, and 1 #8 ground THHN/THWN from the main breaker through 1" pvc conduit to the shed

1 Square D 100 amp subpanel in shed with 100 amp main breaker as a disconnect

1 20 amp CB in subpanel for 5 shop lights and 2 outdoor lights


1 20 amp GFCI CB in subpanel for receptacles


1 20 amp CB with a GFCI receptacle for a 6000 btu A/C

2 grounding rods 6ft apart attached to subpanel via #8 wire

Last edited by peligro113; 06-24-2012 at 04:05 PM.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:27 PM   #19
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another "help me with a subpanel" topic


Your scenario is fine, however ---

You only need a #8 copper ground wire with a 100 Amp feeder, and a #10 ground wire on a 60 Amp feeder.

You will still need to use a #6 wire to those ground rods, unless you provide suitable physical protection, however.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:37 PM   #20
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another "help me with a subpanel" topic


Quote:
Originally Posted by kbsparky View Post
Your scenario is fine, however ---

You only need a #8 copper ground wire with a 100 Amp feeder, and a #10 ground wire on a 60 Amp feeder.

You will still need to use a #6 wire to those ground rods, unless you provide suitable physical protection, however.

Thanks kbsparky

i was thinking of pounding the grounding rods into the ground and then putting a pvc pipe around the part of the rod that is sticking out of the ground. Would that be enough protection?

Like this minus the chains and a little bit higher


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Old 06-24-2012, 08:09 PM   #21
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another "help me with a subpanel" topic


All 8' of the rod needs to be in contact with the soil and the top flush or below the surface.
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Old 06-24-2012, 08:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
All 8' of the rod needs to be in contact with the soil and the top flush or below the surface.

Ok thanks
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Old 06-24-2012, 08:57 PM   #23
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another "help me with a subpanel" topic


Quote:
unless you provide suitable physical protection, however.
Could you point to the code section for this, as I think you cannot have a GEC smaller than #6 CU or #4 AL.
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:05 PM   #24
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another "help me with a subpanel" topic


Quote:
Originally Posted by k_buz View Post
Could you point to the code section for this, as I think you cannot have a GEC smaller than #6 CU or #4 AL.
Start at table 250.66: Smallest conductor listed is a #8, suitable for use with feeder conductors #2 and smaller.

Then have a looksie at 250.64(B), the last sentence of that section reads: "...Grounding electrode conductors smaller than 6 AWG shall be protected in RMC, IMC, PVC, RTRC, EMT, or cable armor."
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Old 06-24-2012, 09:15 PM   #25
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another "help me with a subpanel" topic


When I read your post, I looked it up in my code book....

Quote:
Connections to Rod, Pipe, or Plate Electrodes.
Where the grounding electrode conductor is connected to
rod, pipe, or plate electrodes as permitted in 250.52(A)(5)
or (A)(7), that portion of the conductor that is the sole connection
to the grounding electrode shall not be required to be
larger than 6 AWG copper wire or 4 AWG aluminum wire.
I totally misread the section in bold. We always use #4 CU for GECs and this is something that I haven't had to look up in years. Thanks

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