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Old 09-19-2012, 12:14 PM   #1
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Can 14 guage wire be protected by 30 amp fuses?

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Old 09-19-2012, 12:36 PM   #2
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No. 15 amp.

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Old 09-19-2012, 12:39 PM   #3
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Can 14 guage wire be protected by 30 amp fuses?
In general, no, #14 is limited to 15 amps for general branch circuits.

Can you be more specific, ie; Is this a motor or HVAC load?
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Old 09-19-2012, 04:57 PM   #4
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Can 14 guage wire be protected by 30 amp fuses?
Last time I saw that the insulation had burnt off the wires and where shorting out.
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:08 PM   #5
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Last time I saw that the insulation had burnt off the wires and where shorting out.
Totally depends on the installation type. Hmm, didnt mean to quote you.

Last edited by stickboy1375; 09-19-2012 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 09-19-2012, 09:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
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Can 14 guage wire be protected by 30 amp fuses?
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Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
Totally depends on the installation type. Hmm, didnt mean to quote you.
Correct......

Most of us are used to using NEC rules for wire size.

Technically, a 14AWG wire can handle 32A if used for chassis wiring.....in other words...for short distances, yea, it would work.....but.....not a good idea....I would never do that.....

I design control panels....the smallest wire I spec is 14AWG....if the current is going to be over 15A....I bump it up to 12AWG....and that is inside the panel...

When you start putting a lot of wires into a Panduit gutter....temp rise is a factor....
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:18 PM   #7
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we just had a new provision put in that states that if there's no other option in the panel for overcurrent then 14 can go under a 20a breaker, but it's a last resort.
Basically this will create a giant sh!tstorm as it's totally up to the individual inspector as to the "no other option, last resort" part.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aahi View Post
Can 14 guage wire be protected by 30 amp fuses?
Depends on the application.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddawg16 View Post
Correct......
Most of us are used to using NEC rules for wire size.
Technically, a 14AWG wire can handle 32A if used for chassis wiring.....in other words...for short distances, yea, it would work.....but.....not a good idea....I would never do that.....

I design control panels....the smallest wire I spec is 14AWG....if the current is going to be over 15A....I bump it up to 12AWG....and that is inside the panel...

When you start putting a lot of wires into a Panduit gutter....temp rise is a factor....
Where do you get that #14 is good for 32 amp? I mean I am certain it would carry 100 amps for a very short period of time. Unless you work for UL I doubt your statement is verifiable.

Control panels. What size KVA control xfmr would dictate number 14 wire? How many control panels actually require a 15 amp rated control circuit?
And what load (coil, relay, timer, PLC) in the control panel would require number 12 wire.
What I am saying is you don't spec wire size to what you think, you size it to the current. This will lead to most all relay and PLC logic control panels to wire sizes well below #14.
Larger loads originating and leaving the control panel do require larger conductors. This is calculated in article Table 430.52, for motor OL protection and 310.15B for conductor size.
Saying you use 14 and 12 exclusively would not be an NEC compliant approach. Control panels are included and covered in the NEC.
Just a note. I prefer the smallest conductors possible for control panel interior wiring for elements like coils and relays.
I have found that #14 is rarely needed and takes up to much room in wire channel. Especially if you use MTW wire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew79 View Post
we just had a new provision put in that states that if there's no other option in the panel for overcurrent then 14 can go under a 20a breaker, but it's a last resort.
Basically this will create a giant sh!tstorm as it's totally up to the individual inspector as to the "no other option, last resort" part.
Where is this provision? If you have number 14 wire you need a 15 amp breaker, unless it is an exception like a motor circuit.
The NEC is very clear on this.
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Old 09-20-2012, 11:32 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by J. V. View Post
Where do you get that #14 is good for 32 amp? I mean I am certain it would carry 100 amps for a very short period of time. Unless you work for UL I doubt your statement is verifiable.

Control panels. What size KVA control xfmr would dictate number 14 wire? How many control panels actually require a 15 amp rated control circuit?
And what load (coil, relay, timer, PLC) in the control panel would require number 12 wire.
What I am saying is you don't spec wire size to what you think, you size it to the current. This will lead to most all relay and PLC logic control panels to wire sizes well below #14.
Larger loads originating and leaving the control panel do require larger conductors. This is calculated in article Table 430.52, for motor OL protection and 310.15B for conductor size.
Saying you use 14 and 12 exclusively would not be an NEC compliant approach. Control panels are included and covered in the NEC.
Just a note. I prefer the smallest conductors possible for control panel interior wiring for elements like coils and relays.
I have found that #14 is rarely needed and takes up to much room in wire channel. Especially if you use MTW wire.



Where is this provision? If you have number 14 wire you need a 15 amp breaker, unless it is an exception like a motor circuit.
The NEC is very clear on this.
Here is one of many available links to the charts...

http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm

I've been designing control systems for 'many' years.

The 14AWG is a UL spec for control panels under UL508A.

It's important to understand that I segregate my power. 480 stuff will either be in an MCC or seperate panel. My typical control panel will usually use less than 20A total...system with more power requirements will have an external load center fed from my control transformer....(typically 10Kw and located in the MCC)

And...yes...I use lots of PLC's....real expensive PLC's....
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. V.

Depends on the application.

Where do you get that #14 is good for 32 amp? I mean I am certain it would carry 100 amps for a very short period of time. Unless you work for UL I doubt your statement is verifiable.

Control panels. What size KVA control xfmr would dictate number 14 wire? How many control panels actually require a 15 amp rated control circuit?
And what load (coil, relay, timer, PLC) in the control panel would require number 12 wire.
What I am saying is you don't spec wire size to what you think, you size it to the current. This will lead to most all relay and PLC logic control panels to wire sizes well below #14.
Larger loads originating and leaving the control panel do require larger conductors. This is calculated in article Table 430.52, for motor OL protection and 310.15B for conductor size.
Saying you use 14 and 12 exclusively would not be an NEC compliant approach. Control panels are included and covered in the NEC.
Just a note. I prefer the smallest conductors possible for control panel interior wiring for elements like coils and relays.
I have found that #14 is rarely needed and takes up to much room in wire channel. Especially if you use MTW wire.

Where is this provision? If you have number 14 wire you need a 15 amp breaker, unless it is an exception like a motor circuit.
The NEC is very clear on this.
That's because I'm not under the nec. Take a look at my location before you rip on me next time.

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