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Old 10-09-2008, 11:07 PM   #16
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Aluminum wire from main


Thanks InPhase.. I guess we got completely off topic, but..

I was trying to come up with a reply that would explain what was going through my head; I put more thought into it and realized I was only thinking in terms of each hot leg to ground/neut. Then I realized that if I looked at the hot to hot on an oscilloscope, I'd see 1 phase. And now I think I'm a lot clearer on the concept.

Like my tag says, I'm just a DIY'r, so I'm here to learn... I try to keep my mouth shut when I don't know what I'm talking about, but happens.

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Old 10-10-2008, 01:31 AM   #17
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Thanks InPhase.. I guess we got completely off topic, but..

I was trying to come up with a reply that would explain what was going through my head; I put more thought into it and realized I was only thinking in terms of each hot leg to ground/neut. Then I realized that if I looked at the hot to hot on an oscilloscope, I'd see 1 phase. And now I think I'm a lot clearer on the concept.

Like my tag says, I'm just a DIY'r, so I'm here to learn... I try to keep my mouth shut when I don't know what I'm talking about, but happens.
Off topic? The topic is electrical education for DIY'rs. I think we are right in line I hope it doesn't sound condescending when I pop in with information like I posted about two phase, that doesn't really apply to the original post. That isn't my intention. Others have said I'm also argumentative, but it just reads that way Anyway, us electricians have spent over 100 years standardizing our terminology, so I think it is appropriate to let the rest of you in on the secret too. A plug and receptacle are two different things. A light socket on the ceiling is just as much and "outlet" as where you plug your toaster in, etc. Single phase is single phase, two is two phase. And a sorry electrician is a jackleg. Blah blah blah...
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:33 AM   #18
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Off topic? The topic is electrical education for DIY'rs. I think we are right in line
Yup! I just meant off topic from the OP's question.

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I hope it doesn't sound condescending when I pop in with information like I posted about two phase, that doesn't really apply to the original post. That isn't my intention. Others have said I'm also argumentative, but it just reads that way
I didn't think it was condescending.. You clearly know more than I do here, so it's more like educational. Anyway, a little argument can't hurt.

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A light socket on the ceiling is just as much and "outlet" as where you plug your toaster in, etc.
Now that one I've been clear on for a while!

Annnyway, I swear I was clear on the single phase thing (and as napper said, ever since I learned it I have been paying more attention to wires and transformers on power poles). I was somehow stuck on the fact that on my oscilloscope I could see two waveforms at 180deg (using earth as a reference), and hence two phases... I dunno, obviously not the correct terminology to say it's 2 phase, but demonstrably it is. (At the risk of being argumentative ).

Hey, and as far as terminology goes: "power poles" vs. "telephone poles".. Around here everyone calls 'em telephone poles, but they're all owned by the power company. I never liked that...
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Old 10-10-2008, 06:46 AM   #19
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to much info head is about to explode. I am still not sure which breaker. #2 (Hot, Hot, Neutral, Ground) from main panel . Is it a 2 pole or single pole breaker? And can someone clarify the difference between the two.

I gotta tell ya i love this site. You always get plenty of info!!!!
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Old 10-10-2008, 06:56 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by chatterbass View Post
to much info head is about to explode. I am still not sure which breaker. #2 (Hot, Hot, Neutral, Ground) from main panel . Is it a 2 pole or single pole breaker? And can someone clarify the difference between the two.

I gotta tell ya i love this site. You always get plenty of info!!!!
To feed a subpanel you will use a two pole breaker. A two pole breaker can supply either 240V(two hots/ungrounded) or 240V/120V(two hots/ungrounded and a neutral/grounded). A single pole breaker is used to supply 120V (one hot/ungrounded and one neutral/grounded). Of course these are in addition to the ground/grounding.
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Old 10-10-2008, 07:09 AM   #21
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Not necessarily napper.
Single and three phase most certainly describe secondary power. In fact it is more applicable to secondary than primary.

What about a delta three phase system? That has TWO primary lines, yet is still three phase and not two phase.
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Old 10-10-2008, 07:38 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by chatterbass View Post
to much info head is about to explode. I am still not sure which breaker. #2 (Hot, Hot, Neutral, Ground) from main panel . Is it a 2 pole or single pole breaker? And can someone clarify the difference between the two.

I gotta tell ya i love this site. You always get plenty of info!!!!
Use a two pole 100 amp. A single pole only controls one "hot". A two-pole controls both.
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Old 10-10-2008, 08:08 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chatterbass View Post
to much info head is about to explode. I am still not sure which breaker. #2 (Hot, Hot, Neutral, Ground) from main panel . Is it a 2 pole or single pole breaker? And can someone clarify the difference between the two.

I gotta tell ya i love this site. You always get plenty of info!!!!
This should help you a little

Originally I made it for a square d-ish panel, but it shows the idea somewhat.

Anyways, use a double pole 100 amp,if your still using 3#al use a double pole 90. The "double-pole" uses both required hots to receive 240 volts. Single pole gives you 120 because it uses one hot wire, half of 240. Double pole=240v Single pole=120v. A double pole will give you 120 volts aswell, but a single will ONLY give you 120v.
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Last edited by rgsgww; 10-10-2008 at 08:39 AM. Reason: thought that you may still have the 3#
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Old 10-10-2008, 08:24 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by InPhase277 View Post
Use a two pole 100 amp. A single pole only controls one "hot". A two-pole controls both.

I thought it was determined that #3 AL is too small for a 100 amp breaker....
If you already have the #3 run, you'd need to connect it to a 90 amp feeder breaker (in the main panel). Put what ever breaker you want in the sub panel if you want a means of a disconnect at the sub panel.
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Old 10-10-2008, 11:23 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by theatretch85 View Post
I thought it was determined that #3 AL is too small for a 100 amp breaker....
If you already have the #3 run, you'd need to connect it to a 90 amp feeder breaker (in the main panel). Put what ever breaker you want in the sub panel if you want a means of a disconnect at the sub panel.

I ran a number #2. It was my mistake
Thanks

Last edited by chatterbass; 10-10-2008 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 10-10-2008, 11:27 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theatretch85 View Post
I thought it was determined that #3 AL is too small for a 100 amp breaker....
If you already have the #3 run, you'd need to connect it to a 90 amp feeder breaker (in the main panel). Put what ever breaker you want in the sub panel if you want a means of a disconnect at the sub panel.
It was posted that it was actually #2. So a 100 would be fine, and probably easier to find. And you can't just pop a breaker in the panel as a disconnect. It either must be a main breaker bolted in place, or a backfed breaker on the bus. If backfed, it must be held in place with a retainer bracket of screw.
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Old 10-10-2008, 11:28 AM   #27
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Use a two pole 100 amp. A single pole only controls one "hot". A two-pole controls both.
Thanks, A nice Diy answer. My head was starting to swell from all of the info
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Old 10-10-2008, 11:53 AM   #28
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Thanks, A nice Diy answer. My head was starting to swell from all of the info

Should be good, remember, you need 4 wires, and continue separation at the sub. You will need a disconnect for external buildings.
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Old 10-14-2008, 12:53 PM   #29
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Thanks to everyone who responded to my questions I have passed my rough inspection today
you all were very helpfull and greatly appreciated

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