Forums | Home Repair | Home Improvement | Painting | Interior Decorating | Remodeling | Landscaping


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-16-2008, 11:37 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 177
Share |
Default

Is this allowed??


I really need to finish my kitchen lighting project today, but have never wired up anything with a light switch. I just need some confirmation that the below drawing will be ok. I know there will be a lot of wires in the box, so I was going to put it in a double gang box with an expander piece, to make it double depth as well.

It is a little hard to tell what is what because my scanner won't scan in color, but the two pigtails on the bottom and right are the hot wires. The pigtail in the middle is the neutrals. And the pigtail on the top middle represents the grounds. And another thing, there will be 7 ground wires total, is that ok?

Please help me out here, I would really appreciate it.

Dave
Attached Thumbnails
Is this allowed??-light-switch.jpg  

dc4nomore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 11:44 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,497
Default

Is this allowed??


If you run the power to the light fixtures and fan or to a junction box in the attic/basement, then you can have only one wire going to each switch!

Light fixtures just cover the box and don't go into the box like a switch does (taking up room in the box), so there is more room in a light fixture electrical box for wiring connections.

Billy_Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 11:50 AM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,467
Default

Is this allowed??


Dave,
That looks right.

If your lights are close together or somewhat along the same "path" you could just run one romex from the switch box to the first light and one romex from the first light to the second light.

If you use a plastic switch box you could eliminate the one ground pigtail that goes to the box.
jogr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 11:52 AM   #4
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,030
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Is this allowed??


Quote:
Originally Posted by dc4nomore View Post
I really need to finish my kitchen lighting project today, but have never wired up anything with a light switch. I just need some confirmation that the below drawing will be ok. I know there will be a lot of wires in the box, so I was going to put it in a double gang box with an expander piece, to make it double depth as well.

It is a little hard to tell what is what because my scanner won't scan in color, but the two pigtails on the bottom and right are the hot wires. The pigtail in the middle is the neutrals. And the pigtail on the top middle represents the grounds. And another thing, there will be 7 ground wires total, is that ok?

Please help me out here, I would really appreciate it.

Dave
Why do you have 2 seperate cables going up to the lights?

Get a wire nut or crimp on connector for the grounds that is rated for 7 wires or pigtail them and use 2 connectors.

Jamie
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 11:58 AM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 177
Default

Is this allowed??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_Bob View Post
If you run the power to the light fixtures and fan or to a junction box in the attic/basement, then you can have only one wire going to each switch!

Light fixtures just cover the box and don't go into the box like a switch does (taking up room in the box), so there is more room in a light fixture electrical box for wiring connections.
Do you mean having the switches at the end of the run? I'm kind of unsure how to do that. Isn't that where you mark the neutral as a hot?

The light fixture boxes I'm using are very small pancake style (only 6 cu. in.) so that's why I didn't just take the power from one light to the next. I have to use the pancake style because they're being mounted on the bottom of a header and I don't want to have to add an inch and a half of wood to make it flush with a larger box - the pancake style is the same thickness as the drywall.

I could add a junction box in between the two lights and the light switch rather easily. That would clear up the light switch box a little.

Also, the incoming power line in the pic would actually be coming from another light switch, not directly from the service panel. So if I put the switches at the end of the line, I'd somehow still have to pickup that first light switch and lights.
dc4nomore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 12:03 PM   #6
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,030
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Is this allowed??


Quote:
Originally Posted by dc4nomore View Post
Do you mean having the switches at the end of the run? I'm kind of unsure how to do that. Isn't that where you mark the neutral as a hot?

The light fixture boxes I'm using are very small pancake style (only 6 cu. in.) so that's why I didn't just take the power from one light to the next. I have to use the pancake style because they're being mounted on the bottom of a header and I don't want to have to add an inch and a half of wood to make it flush with a larger box - the pancake style is the same thickness as the drywall.

I could add a junction box in between the two lights and the light switch rather easily. That would clear up the light switch box a little.

Also, the incoming power line in the pic would actually be coming from another light switch, not directly from the service panel. So if I put the switches at the end of the line, I'd somehow still have to pickup that first light switch and lights.
You have power at the switch box right?

Very messy drawing done in paint, but I think you will understand.
Is this allowed??-lights.jpg



Jamie
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 12:03 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 177
Default

Is this allowed??


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
Why do you have 2 seperate cables going up to the lights?

Get a wire nut or crimp on connector for the grounds that is rated for 7 wires or pigtail them and use 2 connectors.

Jamie

Sorry you guys responded before I could answer that one....see above post. The pancake box for the light fixtures is barely large enough for one piece of 14/2 coming in, let alone a 2nd one going to the other light. It is only 6 cu. in.

What do you mean Jamie by pigtailing and using 2 connectors? Like twist together 3 separately and then the other 4 separately and then connect both of those to the box?

I think I will do as Jogr suggested and use a plastic box, that will help eliminate one more wire from the box.

Thanks guys! Keep it coming!
dc4nomore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 12:11 PM   #8
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,030
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Is this allowed??


Quote:
Originally Posted by dc4nomore View Post
Sorry you guys responded before I could answer that one....see above post. The pancake box for the light fixtures is barely large enough for one piece of 14/2 coming in, let alone a 2nd one going to the other light. It is only 6 cu. in.

What do you mean Jamie by pigtailing and using 2 connectors? Like twist together 3 separately and then the other 4 separately and then connect both of those to the box?

I think I will do as Jogr suggested and use a plastic box, that will help eliminate one more wire from the box.

Thanks guys! Keep it coming!
Yes, you can do it the other way if you can't go light to light with the connections. That is a small box. Most of the time you can fix that connection in lights, this is a very very common setup I have shown. But it works either way.

You can use a plastic box and then you don't have to bond the ground to it. Yes you are correct in my description of pig tails.

jamie
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 12:12 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 177
Default

Is this allowed??


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
You have power at the switch box right?

Very messy drawing done in paint, but I think you will understand.
Attachment 6559

Jamie
Thanks for the drawing Jamie. I do understand what you mean. But what about the limited cu. in. issue with the pancake light fixtures? The wires would be dropping down through a header I just installed. I purposely left a 1" void in the plywood in the middle of the header directly where each light would be, so the wire could drop down from the attic. But the pancake would be mounted to the bottom of the header, flush with drywall. A larger box would require that I "extend" the header downward to be flush with the box, plus then we would lose headroom on our bar (directly below the header).

Thanks!
dc4nomore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 12:12 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,467
Default

Is this allowed??


Dave, you have done your homework and have a better understanding of box fill requirements than most DIYers. Given your constraints with the beam I'd go with your plan.
jogr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 12:17 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,497
Default

Is this allowed??


If you can run just one wire to a switch (by using junction boxes in attic/basement) or running power to fixture (can't do in your case), the switches look like this (no craming)...

(I know - there should be a ground...)

Billy_Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 12:20 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,497
Default

Is this allowed??


P.S. Running just one wire to each switch box comes in VERY handy when you have a 4 or 6 gang switch box! (4 or 6 switches all in the same box.)
Billy_Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 12:23 PM   #13
DIY'er
 
jamiedolan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Neenah, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 2,030
Blog Entries: 2
Default

Is this allowed??


Quote:
Originally Posted by dc4nomore View Post
Thanks for the drawing Jamie. I do understand what you mean. But what about the limited cu. in. issue with the pancake light fixtures? The wires would be dropping down through a header I just installed. I purposely left a 1" void in the plywood in the middle of the header directly where each light would be, so the wire could drop down from the attic. But the pancake would be mounted to the bottom of the header, flush with drywall. A larger box would require that I "extend" the header downward to be flush with the box, plus then we would lose headroom on our bar (directly below the header).

Thanks!
The way your planing is just fine in your situation. It just saves a run of wire when you can connect them the way it is shown in my drawing.

Given your situation I would probably wire them the same way you are with 2 feeds from the switch box. If your going with plastic, they make extra deep boxes for a couple extra dollars, they make it really easy to work with. I think your fixture boxes are even smaller than I was picturing at first, so go with your plan.

I only wish my kitchen lighting was going to be so easy. I'll have way over 50 connections by the time I am done with just the lighting.

Jamie
jamiedolan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 12:33 PM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 177
Default

Is this allowed??


Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy_Bob View Post
If you can run just one wire to a switch (by using junction boxes in attic/basement) or running power to fixture (can't do in your case), the switches look like this (no craming)..
I know what you mean there with the one wire to each switch...that would make it MUCH more simplified. I was almost tempted to wire each thing on it's own circuit to simplify things, but I didn't want to waste the wire or the space in my service panel.

I think I may add a junction box in between the switch box and the 2 lights to slightly simplify it. But I don't think I can feed the power from the attic to the switch box, because there is another switch box not shown that the power is actually coming from.

Thanks a lot for the help!
dc4nomore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-16-2008, 12:36 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 177
Default

Is this allowed??


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
The way your planing is just fine in your situation. It just saves a run of wire when you can connect them the way it is shown in my drawing.

Given your situation I would probably wire them the same way you are with 2 feeds from the switch box. If your going with plastic, they make extra deep boxes for a couple extra dollars, they make it really easy to work with. I think your fixture boxes are even smaller than I was picturing at first, so go with your plan.

I only wish my kitchen lighting was going to be so easy. I'll have way over 50 connections by the time I am done with just the lighting.

Jamie
I think I will get the deep plastic box you are talking about. Thanks.

Haha my lighting circuit probably isn't as complicated as yours, but this isn't all of it! There are 4 more can lights and possibly some undercabinet lights as well.

dc4nomore is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Max amps allowed - electrician advice needed Des Electrical 27 06-05-2008 10:31 PM
selling allowed on this site/forum? mikehende Building & Construction 2 04-15-2008 10:59 AM
PVC piping allowed in NY? honeydew Plumbing 6 11-21-2007 06:57 AM
Am I (legally) allowed to paint copyrighted material inside and/or out? Fira Painting 15 11-15-2007 06:07 PM
Pigtail inside panel box. Code allowed? KUIPORNG Electrical 7 08-22-2006 03:45 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.