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Old 12-11-2008, 08:25 PM   #1
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After the fact permit 2


This is a continuation of a post that I made a few days ago about a contractor who did subpar work w/o a permit. Someone asked how many fixtures he did, the answer is six. I have decided I will attempt to get a permit, but I am horrified of what might happen. I wand to fix the work he did before I apply for the permit. These pictures are examples of what I found and how I fixed them. They are in an attic crawl space. Do my fixes look up to code?
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After the fact permit 2-dsc03347.jpg  

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Old 12-11-2008, 08:39 PM   #2
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After the fact permit 2


Your fixes look good except for one thing. You have to bond the metallic boxes. Get short pieces of bare copper wire, tie them in with the grounds in each box, and attach them to green bonding screws that are sold in the electrical section at the home center. Each box has a threaded hole in the back to accept the screw.

That way, should the boxes ever somehow become energized, they're attached to the grounding system via the bonding screw and the wire.

Actually, the romex need to be secured within a foot or so of each box as well. Use wire staples.

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Old 12-11-2008, 08:42 PM   #3
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After the fact permit 2


And, I'd send pictures of the previous guy's work to the company that sent him and ask for a formal explanation of why they'd allow their employee to do such imcompetent work. A call to the licensing board is in order as well.
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:55 PM   #4
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After the fact permit 2


I know about the staples, I just ran out of daylight, I have to get back there tomorrow. But just to be clear, by saying he boxes need to be "bonded" do you mean they have to be grounded? I was under the impression that you didn't have to ground the boxes.
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:59 PM   #5
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After the fact permit 2


Quote:
Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
Actually, the romex need to be secured within a foot or so of each box as well. Use wire staples.
I see a wire stapled in the photo, but it looks more like a u shaped nail than an approved wire staple. The standard wire staples that are most often used are the white ones with a nail under each side. One wire under each staple.

This is likely more personal preference, and the way I have seen it done, I don't think there is any code about this, but I like to either have the ground wires bare with no nut or a green grounding nut. I never use a regular color wire nut on the grounding wires, and most of the time they are left bare.

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Old 12-11-2008, 09:00 PM   #6
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After the fact permit 2


Quote:
Originally Posted by misterx View Post
I know about the staples, I just ran out of daylight, I have to get back there tomorrow. But just to be clear, by saying he boxes need to be "bonded" do you mean they have to be grounded? I was under the impression that you didn't have to ground the boxes.
Yes, they must be attached (bonded) to the ground connection in those wires.

I'll post a picture in a little bit of how I make up boxes like that.

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Old 12-11-2008, 09:15 PM   #7
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After the fact permit 2


Grounding a metal box.
After the fact permit 2-img_4740.jpg

*Note: It appears that starting in the 1990 code cycle the NEC requires a connector or wire nut to keep the ground wire from falling apart.

Last edited by jamiedolan; 12-11-2008 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:04 PM   #8
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After the fact permit 2


Good picture Jamiedolan. The green wire is great, but you can use bare copper also.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:05 PM   #9
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After the fact permit 2


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I was under the impression that you didn't have to ground the boxes.
With plastic boxes you don't have to. With metal, you do.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:08 PM   #10
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After the fact permit 2


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
This is likely more personal preference, and the way I have seen it done, I don't think there is any code about this, but I like to either have the ground wires bare with no nut or a green grounding nut. I never use a regular color wire nut on the grounding wires, and most of the time they are left bare.

Jamie
The connection cannot depend on just being twisted together. There should be a crimp on splice cap or a wire nut.

The wires in the box do not have the required 6" length of free conductor either.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:32 PM   #11
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After the fact permit 2


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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
The connection cannot depend on just being twisted together. There should be a crimp on splice cap or a wire nut.

The wires in the box do not have the required 6" length of free conductor either.
That box is old work with the grounding pig tailed added during a fixture change out. That box supplies some outlets (power fed to light), so I wanted to ensure a good ground connection.

I didn't realize a ground connection required a connector. Looks like it was added in the 1990 code cycle.

I can't remember ever seeing a electrician put a wire nut on ground wires either. But I do see your correct that it is required.

KC, Do you fail people for not using some type of connector on their ground wires if they are well twisted?

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Old 12-11-2008, 11:04 PM   #12
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After the fact permit 2


Quote:
Originally Posted by jamiedolan View Post
I see a wire stapled in the photo, but it looks more like a u shaped nail than an approved wire staple. The standard wire staples that are most often used are the white ones with a nail under each side. One wire under each staple.

This is likely more personal preference, and the way I have seen it done, I don't think there is any code about this, but I like to either have the ground wires bare with no nut or a green grounding nut. I never use a regular color wire nut on the grounding wires, and most of the time they are left bare.

Jamie
Shouldn't you use a wirenut to secure the connection after twisting?
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Old 12-11-2008, 11:05 PM   #13
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After the fact permit 2


jamiedolan, Thanks for the picture. Someone said something about 6" of conductor being required in the box, is this true? If so how would you ever fit anything in a switch box?
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Old 12-11-2008, 11:07 PM   #14
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After the fact permit 2


Those were some scary photos!
Was that a band-aid I saw on one of the connections?
The guy who did that "work" should be arrested!

Your fix looks really nice. But you do need that little ground wire to the box.

Good luck with the inspector. Maybe if you get a nice guy, he'll understand.
Since you're having the inspection done after the fact, just keep the breaker off until he passes your work. I don't see anything wrong with doing that.
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Old 12-11-2008, 11:10 PM   #15
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After the fact permit 2


Quote:
Originally Posted by KE2KB View Post
Shouldn't you use a wirenut to secure the connection after twisting?
Yes, I was in error. This became a requirement in the 1990 code cycle. My house was build in 1963 - so none of the grounds were secured using a connector.

The twisted wires done well don't fall apart. But the current code does appear to require a nut or connector on the ground wires.

Jamie

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