Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 09-12-2012, 02:53 PM   #1
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Adding a ground wire


Thanks in advance for any help. My house was built in the 50's but has an updated panel which is grounded properly. Most of the wire within the house has also been updated. I occasionally run into a wire which is still the old black and white only without a ground. I am currently updating my kitchen with recessed lighting. I pulled down the existing fluorescent lights and found that one is grounded properly while the other is not. My question is regarding how i can gain a ground to this fixture. Can i simply run a bare copper ground wire from grounding terminal bar within the breaker box to this location? Or can i "jump" a ground from the other fixture that is properly grounded? Any info would be greatly appreciated!

johncle6023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 04:06 PM   #2
E2 Electrician
 
stickboy1375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Litchfield, CT
Posts: 5,132
Rewards Points: 2,056
Default

Adding a ground wire


Quote:
Originally Posted by johncle6023 View Post
Thanks in advance for any help. My house was built in the 50's but has an updated panel which is grounded properly. Most of the wire within the house has also been updated. I occasionally run into a wire which is still the old black and white only without a ground. I am currently updating my kitchen with recessed lighting. I pulled down the existing fluorescent lights and found that one is grounded properly while the other is not. My question is regarding how i can gain a ground to this fixture. Can i simply run a bare copper ground wire from grounding terminal bar within the breaker box to this location? Or can i "jump" a ground from the other fixture that is properly grounded? Any info would be greatly appreciated!

Just re-wire.... its the same amount of work to bring a ground wire to the fixture as it is to bring a new wire.

stickboy1375 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 05:32 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,554
Rewards Points: 2,016
Default

Adding a ground wire


Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
Just re-wire.... its the same amount of work to bring a ground wire to the fixture as it is to bring a new wire.
Think he means bring a new cable in.
hammerlane is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 06:56 PM   #4
Electrical Contractor
 
kbsparky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delmarva
Posts: 3,368
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Adding a ground wire


Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
Just re-wire.... its the same amount of work to bring a ground wire to the fixture as it is to bring a new wire.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammerlane View Post
Think he means bring a new cable in.
Not necessarily. Depending on the switching scenario it could be much more difficult to run a new cable, than it would be to install a single grounding wire.

To answer the OP, yes you can install a single ground wire back to the grounding bar in the panel.
__________________
-KB

Life is uncertain -- eat dessert first!!
kbsparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 08:25 PM   #5
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Adding a ground wire


Thank you very much for the responses. The switching is in fact why i had to ask the question in the first place. It would be extremely difficult to try to run a new cable to the location of the current switch, which is where it has to stay according to my wife. But getting a ground wire from the panel to the attic space and the ungrounded fixture would not be a problem. Thank you for letting me know that this is in fact acceptable. Im assuming i should run solid, insulated copper instead of bare wire...12 gauge? Thank you again for your time, i really appreciate it.
johncle6023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 08:31 PM   #6
Electrical Contractor
 
kbsparky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Delmarva
Posts: 3,368
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Adding a ground wire


You can run solid, stranded, insulated or bare wire. Your choice.

As for the size, 12 gauge will work on both 12, and 14 gauge circuits. But you are not required to install anything larger than the circuit conductors.
__________________
-KB

Life is uncertain -- eat dessert first!!
kbsparky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2012, 10:18 PM   #7
E2 Electrician
 
stickboy1375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Litchfield, CT
Posts: 5,132
Rewards Points: 2,056
Default

Adding a ground wire


personally, I would just GFCI the circuit if not re wiring... just another option for you.
stickboy1375 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2012, 05:48 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 6,964
Rewards Points: 2,024
Default

Adding a ground wire


If you run a separate ground wire it need not follow the route of the feed cable (current carrying conductors) back to the panel. If this ground wire (an equipment grounding conductor) should first reach a fat ground wire (grounding electrode conductor) running between panel and ground rod or water pipe, it can stop there.

As I interpret the National Electric Code, the separate ground wire can run past multiple outlets/receptacles/fixtures of the same branch circuit and they can all tap onto it.

It is not mandatory to do at least one of: (a) grounding the light fixtures or (b) putting ground fault interrupter protection on the circuit. (At least one of these is strongly recommended for pre-existing receptacles.)
__________________
Forget super sized fries. The Washington Redskins could promote healthy eating with First Lady Obama by choosing a (red skinned) turnip for a mascot.

Last edited by AllanJ; 09-13-2012 at 05:57 AM.
AllanJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2012, 02:10 PM   #9
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 13
Rewards Points: 10
Default

Adding a ground wire


Thanks for the advice. Just a quick question regarding "if the ground should first reach a fat ground wire it can stop there". Does this mean I can simply run the ground to the fixture several feet away that is on a desperate circuit and is grounded properly? Or do I still need to run it all the way back to the panel?
johncle6023 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2012, 02:58 PM   #10
Member
 
Thadius856's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 921
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Adding a ground wire


I have much the same situation in my house. Where possible, I rewired through the attic (all lighting, the entire kitchen, etc). However, this required opening a few walls that I didn't want to touch (office/entryway/etc).

In the areas that were not accessible, I ran a ground retrofit through the crawlspace. It essentially amounted to shutting off power, removing the device and cutting the old switch box nails off the stud. Then I'd run a cable bit through the wall pocket down about 12", right through the bottom plate and subflooring. Ran 12g THHN, connected several together at a junction box of nothing but grounds, and then took one ground to the main panel. On exterior walls, I had to be sure that I drilled back a little from vertical to clear the stem wall, rim joist and sill plate. Replace the switch box with a new work box, reinstall the device, and you're golden.

Two things to keep in mind: you want to fill the hole with a can of foam insulation afterwards, and you may have to move the new work switch box an inch or clip off a drywall wing on that side.

If you don't have a crawlspace but do have an attic (slab on grade), then sorry, but rewiring probably will be easier. Stock up on fish tape, lube, and a magnet pull system to make life easier.
__________________
Check out my on-going Project Thread!
Current Project: Whole House Data Wiring
Back Burner: Drywall Patching
Planning: Kitchen Reno
Thadius856 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2012, 04:09 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 6,964
Rewards Points: 2,024
Default

Adding a ground wire


Quote:
Originally Posted by johncle6023 View Post
Thanks for the advice. Just a quick question regarding "if the ground should first reach a fat ground wire it can stop there". Does this mean I can simply run the ground to the fixture several feet away that is on a desperate circuit and is grounded properly? Or do I still need to run it all the way back to the panel?
If you wish to run a separate ground wire, start at the fixture or outlet box or receptacle in question. Then work back all the way to the panel.

It may not terminate at another fixture box or outlet box or junction box that contains a ground wire accompanying its current carrying wires, and it may not terminate and tie onto another separately run ground wire from outlets, fixtures, etc. of another branch circuit.

It may be tied on to the (usually #6) ground wire from the panel to ground rods instead of following the latter the rest of the way to the panel.

Wires including ground wires must be wire nutted, screwed, or clamped together; just twisting or wrapping around is not good enough.
__________________
Forget super sized fries. The Washington Redskins could promote healthy eating with First Lady Obama by choosing a (red skinned) turnip for a mascot.

Last edited by AllanJ; 09-13-2012 at 04:22 PM.
AllanJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2012, 04:11 PM   #12
Member
 
Thadius856's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Northern California
Posts: 921
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Adding a ground wire


Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanJ View Post
It may not terminate at another junction box that contains a ground wire accompanying its current carrying wires, and it may not terminate and tie onto another separately run ground wire from outlets, fixtures, etc. of another branch circuit.
This. In my case, I only had to ground receptacles on two circuits, so I only have two wires going back to the panel. YMMV.
__________________
Check out my on-going Project Thread!
Current Project: Whole House Data Wiring
Back Burner: Drywall Patching
Planning: Kitchen Reno
Thadius856 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2012, 05:29 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO USA
Posts: 104
Rewards Points: 77
Default

Adding a ground wire


Quote:
Originally Posted by AllanJ View Post

It may not terminate at another fixture box or outlet box or junction box that contains a ground wire accompanying its current carrying wires, and it may not terminate and tie onto another separately run ground wire from outlets, fixtures, etc. of another branch circuit.
Anyone know the rationale for this rule? Seems to me like tying the ground wire to any other ground wire couldnt hurt, but they dont allow it. Im just curious more than anything.
patented is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2012, 05:31 PM   #14
E2 Electrician
 
stickboy1375's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Litchfield, CT
Posts: 5,132
Rewards Points: 2,056
Default

Adding a ground wire


Quote:
Originally Posted by patented View Post
Anyone know the rationale for this rule? Seems to me like tying the ground wire to any other ground wire couldnt hurt, but they dont allow it. Im just curious more than anything.
Less chance of it being disrupted in the future...
stickboy1375 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2012, 05:34 PM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO USA
Posts: 104
Rewards Points: 77
Default

Adding a ground wire


Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
Less chance of it being disrupted in the future...
Thanks. Thats a very interesting rationale, considering it sounds like there really isnt a downside from a functionality perspective.

patented is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need to know if my grounds and neutrals are connected right dorlow Electrical 185 01-15-2012 02:54 PM
voltage on ground wire - multiple ground problem? Thaiman Electrical 14 04-02-2011 11:49 AM
Connecting new dishwasher and garbage disposal -- no ground wire in the conduits. arca Electrical 17 03-28-2011 02:06 AM
What do I do with the ground wire? Letty Electrical 1 03-17-2011 12:47 PM
Is using a ground wire as neutral wire safe? Head Fred Electrical 9 12-18-2008 02:37 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.