Adding A Ground To An Ungrounded Recepticle - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-15-2007, 10:02 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 60
Rewards Points: 75
Default

adding a ground to an ungrounded recepticle


I have a string of ungrounded outlets that are supplied by 2 wire nm with no ground. I would like to install grounded outlets on this circuit. Can I pick up the ground from another circuit that is nearby and add this to my existing ungrounded circuit? Can I pick up a ground from a nearby cold water pipe?
Thank You

Advertisement

SS396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 10:05 AM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 50
Rewards Points: 25
Default

adding a ground to an ungrounded recepticle


Quote:
Originally Posted by SS396 View Post
I have a string of ungrounded outlets that are supplied by 2 wire nm with no ground. I would like to install grounded outlets on this circuit. Can I pick up the ground from another circuit that is nearby and add this to my existing ungrounded circuit? Can I pick up a ground from a nearby cold water pipe?
Thank You
no and no

Advertisement

buffalonymann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 10:07 AM   #3
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,904
Rewards Points: 2,162
Default

adding a ground to an ungrounded recepticle


SS396, there are very few instance that you "pull" a ground from elsewhere. Your suggestions don't work.
The bottom line is that it is always better, and usually the same or less work, to simply run a new circuit.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 10:11 AM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 50
Rewards Points: 25
Default

adding a ground to an ungrounded recepticle


You can also buy GFCI and install it at the first receptacle, and use it to protect up to (6) more grounding receptacles
buffalonymann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 10:15 AM   #5
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,904
Rewards Points: 2,162
Default

adding a ground to an ungrounded recepticle


Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalonymann View Post
You can also buy GFCI and install it at the first receptacle, and use it to protect up to (6) more grounding receptacles
Is the "six more" a local requirement? This is not an NEC limitation.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 10:19 AM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 60
Rewards Points: 75
Default

adding a ground to an ungrounded recepticle


Thank you both for the fast answer.
SS396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 10:22 AM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 50
Rewards Points: 25
Default

adding a ground to an ungrounded recepticle


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
Is the "six more" a local requirement? This is not an NEC limitation.
The NEC specifically requires all equipment to be used in accordance with the manufacturer specs. One can only protect the amount of additional receptacles specified by the manufacturer.
buffalonymann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 11:11 AM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 50
Rewards Points: 25
Default

adding a ground to an ungrounded recepticle


Quote:
Originally Posted by SS396 View Post
Thank you both for the fast answer.
the GFCI scenerio creates a virtual ground, not a real ground. It must be wired correctly as well....be sure to have somebody who is competent do this
buffalonymann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 02:15 PM   #9
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,904
Rewards Points: 2,162
Default

adding a ground to an ungrounded recepticle


Yeah, 110.3(B), I know. That said, I have never seen an actual limitation put on the number of load side devices. There may be suggestions, which makes sense, but nothing concrete at to limits.


Quote:
the GFCI scenerio creates a virtual ground,
HUH???
A GFI does NOT "create" a ground, virtual or not. A GFI does NOT need a ground to function.
All it does is make an ungrounded circuit a bit safer. That's it.
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 02:58 PM   #10
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 5,235
Rewards Points: 2,440
Default

adding a ground to an ungrounded recepticle


It is possible that you can use a cold water pipe to get your equipment ground connection. It may or may not be easier than a new circuit. "IF"
you can get an equipment ground wire(s) ran to the water pipe within 5 feet of where it enters the house and that metal water pipe has been used as a grounding electrode with a grounding electrode conductor bonding it to the service neutral at the house main panel then you can do this. If this is viable and easier for you... install a junction box and bring a equipment ground wire from each receptacle to the jb install them all in a wirenut then run a single equipment ground to the water pipe as provided by 250.130 (c) and connect close to where the water pipe enters the home as mentioned.... with the appropriate clamp not a freakin hose clamp. If the grounding electrode conductor is close by then you can connect to it as an alternative if it is easier. But in general a new circuit is just as easy as Speedy mentioned.

Stubbie
Stubbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 03:18 PM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 50
Rewards Points: 25
Default

adding a ground to an ungrounded recepticle


Stubbie writes...It is possible that you can use a cold water pipe to get your equipment ground connection. It may or may not be easier than a new circuit.

The NEC requires that any equipment used in an electrical circuit be listed for the purpose it is used. water pipes are not listed to carry fault currents, nor any other currents
buffalonymann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 03:33 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 50
Rewards Points: 25
Default

adding a ground to an ungrounded recepticle


Speedy writes..."Yeah, 110.3(B), I know. That said, I have never seen an actual limitation put on the number of load side devices. There may be suggestions, which makes sense, but nothing concrete at to limits."


Leviton had a 6 receptacle limit. I went to Leviton website, but could not find a techincal bulletin.

P&S does not give a limit, but says 4 - 6 on their site.

whatever the manufactuer states is the limit
buffalonymann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 03:37 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 50
Rewards Points: 25
Default

adding a ground to an ungrounded recepticle


Speedy writes..."HUH???
A GFI does NOT "create" a ground, virtual or not. A GFI does NOT need a ground to function.
All it does is make an ungrounded circuit a bit safer. That's it."


Your answer tells me that you don't know what I'm talking about.
buffalonymann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 03:48 PM   #14
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,904
Rewards Points: 2,162
Default

adding a ground to an ungrounded recepticle


Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalonymann View Post
Stubbie writes...It is possible that you can use a cold water pipe to get your equipment ground connection. It may or may not be easier than a new circuit.

The NEC requires that any equipment used in an electrical circuit be listed for the purpose it is used. water pipes are not listed to carry fault currents, nor any other currents
Buffalo, Stubbie is absolutely correct.
I suggest you read 250.130(C).
__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2007, 03:53 PM   #15
Licensed Electrical Cont.
 
Speedy Petey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,904
Rewards Points: 2,162
Default

adding a ground to an ungrounded recepticle


Quote:
Originally Posted by buffalonymann View Post
Your answer tells me that you don't know what I'm talking about.
Actually you stating this:

"the GFCI scenerio creates a virtual ground,"

suggest it is you that are unclear as to what's what.

If you can explain what a "virtual ground" is I'll recant.

I'm not really trying to cause trouble here. I just don't want some unsuspecting DIYer to come here and read a post like that and get the idea that there is ANY ground condition at all by installing a GFI on an ungrounded circuit.
Your post does suggest this.




BTW- Welcome to the site.

Advertisement

__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.
Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
Speedy Petey is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
This doesnt seem right. JoulesWinfield Electrical 27 07-26-2009 08:40 PM
Hot Tub Install--Grounding Rod Question statgeek_rob Electrical 16 09-15-2007 03:59 AM
Replacing wiring in middle of run, ungrounded lighting circuit alexz Electrical 3 07-05-2007 09:53 PM
Subpanel feeder questions Silhanek Electrical 4 03-22-2007 07:30 PM
Adding a ground bar Chemgeek Electrical 1 02-18-2007 01:28 AM




Top of Page | View New Posts