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Old 06-07-2007, 10:42 PM   #1
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Adding an electrical outlet box


Hi guys,

I need to add an electrical outlet on an Island I built. It is sheetrocked already and I was wondering if those electrical boxes for old work with the lillte ears are good. I don't want the outlet box to loosen over time. The sheetrock is 1/2 inc, should I use one of those boxes, or should I cut out a piece of sheetrock and add the outlet box screwed to the stud? Thanks

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Old 06-07-2007, 10:53 PM   #2
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Adding an electrical outlet box


The "old worK" boxes are ok, but if you can locate the side of the stud, I would remove the factory installed nails and their little holders from a soft plastic nail on, and cut the hole so that it slips right on side the stud. Predrill a couple of 3/16" holes at the top and bottom corners, then send in a couple of 1 1/2" drywall screws.

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Old 06-08-2007, 06:57 AM   #3
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Adding an electrical outlet box


Old work boxes are perfectly fine. I use them ALL the time.

If you are not comfortable with them you can use a Smart Box. This is a box designed exactly as trouble described, but is legal for the application.
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Old 06-08-2007, 07:34 AM   #4
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Adding an electrical outlet box


they work well...just make sure you don't make the hole too big....not that I would know anything about that....
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:16 AM   #5
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Adding an electrical outlet box


Thanks alot guys for the Great responses. I like the smart box, but I see they are plastic and in NY only metal is allowed with bx cable.

Thanks,
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Old 06-08-2007, 03:56 PM   #6
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Adding an electrical outlet box


Quote:
Originally Posted by helpless handyman View Post
I like the smart box, but I see they are plastic and in NY only metal is allowed with bx cable.
Says who? Check your sources.
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Old 06-08-2007, 06:19 PM   #7
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Adding an electrical outlet box


If we really are talking about BX cable (listed in the code as type AC) then how would one ground it without a metal box.

We are probably really talking about type MC cable. How would one bond the metal sheeth without a metal box and fittings?
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Old 06-08-2007, 06:42 PM   #8
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314.3
You would need an internal bonding means to use a plastic box with MC cable.
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Old 06-08-2007, 07:45 PM   #9
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I have good luck with plain ol "old work" boxes if they are safe in your state. You have to tighten them well (but not too well) and they are nice and solid.
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Old 06-08-2007, 09:01 PM   #10
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Adding an electrical outlet box


I didn't mean to imply he should use a plastic box with AC/MC/BX. Only that NM is no longer prohibited in NYC.
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Last edited by Speedy Petey; 06-09-2007 at 08:59 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 06-09-2007, 12:09 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
I didn't mean to imply he should use a plastic box with AC/MC/BX. On that NM is no longer prohibited in NYC.

Oh, I have no idea what is prohibited in NYC. My sister and her husband live on Long Island and romex is now allowed there.
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Old 06-09-2007, 08:59 PM   #12
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Adding an electrical outlet box


NM was always (basically) allowed on LI. I grew up there and started in the trade down there.

"The City" recently adopted an amended NEC and Art. 334 was left in with some changes.

Here is the official statement:
http://www.nema.org/stds/fieldreps/c...20073107ny.cfm


Here is what the Ammended Art 334 says:

Quote:
ARTICLE 334
Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cable: Types NM, NMC, and NMS

SECTION 334.10
Section 334.10 - Revise to read as follows:

334.10 Uses Permitted. Type NM, Type NMC, and Type NMS cables shall be permitted to be used in the following:

(1) One- and two-family dwellings.
(2) Multifamily dwellings, except as prohibited in Section 334.12.

FPN: See Section 310.10 for temperature limitation of conductors.

SECTION 334.12
Subsection 334.12(A)(1) - Revise to read as follows:

(1) In any multifamily dwelling exceeding three floors above grade.

Subsection 334.12(A)(11) - Add a new subsection 334.12 (A)(11) to read as follows:

(11) In non-residential buildings.

SECTION 334.30
Sub-Section 334.30(C) Delete in its entirety.
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Old 06-10-2007, 06:10 PM   #13
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Adding an electrical outlet box


I always like a metal box to use.

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Old 07-06-2007, 07:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
Old work boxes are perfectly fine. I use them ALL the time.

If you are not comfortable with them you can use a Smart Box. This is a box designed exactly as trouble described, but is legal for the application.
What are the code requirements for attaching a box to a stud? Would it be against code to drill a hole in the side of a metal gang box and put a screw in at an angle?

I was told to be carefull using old work boxes in the bathroom and that attaching to the stud was much better, but also was told that screws or nails need to be in the back third of the box where there are already holes to prevent the risk of the screw head tearing away insulation on one of the wires. I don't see how I could get a nail or screw back there, with only 2" of width, so i was thinking of drilling a hole a third of the way in, and driving a screw at angle into the stud. I would think I could get the screw almost all the way in and that it would be out of the way.

I had originally looked for something like the smart box, but wanted metal, as I am trying to avoid PVC as much as possible due to the enviromental concerns (I know romex has pvc, though I heard there are some alternates, would love to hear of those). I saw this http://www.aifittings.com/whnew78.htm, which seems very similar to the Smart Box, but doesn't list material.

I really would appreciate any advice on this, and any explanation of the code on this.

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Old 07-06-2007, 08:59 PM   #15
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Adding an electrical outlet box


If the box is not designed to have screws through the sides it would be a code violation to do so. Do we sometimes do just that, I'll admit yes, once in a blue moon. Now with Smart Boxes and One Boxes though there is very little reason to do so.

Metal boxes with NM cable, hey, whatever floats your boat. I hate them, for several reasons. Capacity is one of the main reasons. Clamping is another.

PVC? Environmental concerns? NO COMMENT, on the grounds I don't want to insult anyone.....much. Sorry, I hear this *#@% all the time from folks in a town not too far from me. The same ones who scold me for eating meat.

If you are worried about the PVC box burning if the house catches fire, the small amount of PVC that is the electrical boxes is the last of your concerns. I'd worry WAY more about the chemicals under your sink and the paint cans in the basement.
There are also fiber boxes. Or bakelite. There is more than just PVC and metal, although I GREATLY prefer the grey PVC.

If you insist on using metal, use madison clips, or "box supports" for those not familiar with that term. I'm not sure who told you this is a bad thing in a bathroom.

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