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Old 02-16-2011, 05:27 PM   #1
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Add new electrical socket 7 feet above existing one


Hey all - I want to put an electric socket outlet up on the wall about 7 feet above an existing socket. It's just for a baby monitor camera, so I'm not worried about draw. I figure I could get one of those blue drywall lock-in boxes. Then drop romex down and tap into the existing socket...with the power off, of course.

1. There will be a stud since the outlet below is attached to it. Must I cut away more drywall so I can nail this new box to it?

2. What if I find the lower outlet has a wire coming in from one side - and then out the other (to the next outlet down the way)? Can I still tap into this outlet?

3. It seems some outlets have the push-in type connectors where the wires go into tiny holes in the back. But then they also have screws on the side. So in any case - how should I "tap into" an existing outlet? Just run my new romex from the unused screws on the side and double up on the ground?

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Old 02-16-2011, 05:53 PM   #2
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Add new electrical socket 7 feet above existing one


This is quite simple to do.

1.Turn off power and make sure power is off at plug.
2.Use a retrofit box and make a hole up a high where you want the new box.
3.Remove the existing plug.
4.Push a fishtape up the wall from the exisitng plug and out the hole you made.
5.Feed the new wire down the wall into the exisiting plug.
6.Install new box into wall and put on plug.
7.In exisiting box either put new wires on plug(do not use the back stab holes). If there are already 4 wires in the plug you will have to pigtail the wire to the plug.
8.Turn power back on.

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Old 02-16-2011, 06:23 PM   #3
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Add new electrical socket 7 feet above existing one


No staples are required for fished cables.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:29 PM   #4
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Add new electrical socket 7 feet above existing one


Also, be sure you use the appropriate size nm cable, most likely you will be coming off an outlet wired with 14ga cable but there is a possibility it could be 12ga. Just make sure you use the same as whatever is there.
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:18 PM   #5
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Add new electrical socket 7 feet above existing one


Also if you want both receptacles to line up on the same stud, you can use sheetrock screws and just screw the box to the stud. This way you do not need to remove more rock, and you won't have a problem with the remodel boxs wings.
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:44 PM   #6
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Add new electrical socket 7 feet above existing one


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Originally Posted by SparkandArc View Post
Also if you want both receptacles to line up on the same stud, you can use sheetrock screws and just screw the box to the stud. This way you do not need to remove more rock, and you won't have a problem with the remodel boxs wings.
C'mon now that is hacky and illegal.

Just use a single gang old work box with the wings, cut the hole exactly as large as the box and it will be fine, if you really want to screw it to the stud so it will be as rigid as possible get your hands on a smartbox at your local electrical supply house.
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:59 PM   #7
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Add new electrical socket 7 feet above existing one


[quote=Mr. Shed;592445]C'mon now that is hacky and illegal.


Not necessarily. You are allowed to use screws through a box if no threads are showing, or if you cover the threads with an approved means. I.E. Silicone. Smartbox's are a great solution this, but find a contractor that will pay for these is almost impossible. I personally prefer to screw them in for rigidity, as I hate those wings that tend to ruin the rock. I would also suggest using F Straps in addition to the regular old work box.
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:00 PM   #8
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Add new electrical socket 7 feet above existing one


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Originally Posted by SparkandArc View Post
Not necessarily. You are allowed to use screws through a box if no threads are showing, or if you cover the threads with an approved means. I.E. Silicone. Smartbox's are a great solution this, but find a contractor that will pay for these is almost impossible. I personally prefer to screw them in for rigidity, as I hate those wings that tend to ruin the rock. I would also suggest using F Straps in addition to the regular old work box.

Quote:
NEC 2008 -

110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use of Equipment.
(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions included in the listing or labeling.

314.43 Nonmetallic Boxes.
Provisions for supports or other mounting means for nonmetallic boxes shall be outside of the box, or the box shall be constructed so as to prevent contact between the conductors in the box and the supporting screws.
Your basic plastic single gang nail on boxes are not listed to be screwed through & putting silicone over the threads is not part of the construction of the box.

I am not trying to split hairs here either, the drywall screws through the side of the box method is an often ignored and manipulated installation practice that is against the NEC....and really tacky and hacky too....

Last edited by Mr. Shed; 02-16-2011 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:09 PM   #9
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Add new electrical socket 7 feet above existing one


I originally thought the wing-box would be fine because this is light-duty work. But now that you mention it - what if I did want to hang a big, heavy power block/transformer on there, like for a printer. Over time, it could wiggle the box loose. Same deal with repeated plugging and unplugging over time.

But if I set that same box nicely in a perfectly cut drywall hole - then drilled 2 holes at a 45 into the stud - I'm sure I could get two screws in clean. I wonder if they make plastic screws....
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:48 PM   #10
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Add new electrical socket 7 feet above existing one


I actually like your code on this, but I also like to discuss the code. I was working under article 314.23(b)(1) which is under "installation" and which yours is under "construction specification". I understand if you don't like the practice of this type of installation, and I will be having a discussion about this exact "gray area" during our next inspection with our local AHJ. I will get back to you with how this turns out.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:45 AM   #11
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Add new electrical socket 7 feet above existing one


Quote:
Originally Posted by denemante View Post
I originally thought the wing-box would be fine because this is light-duty work. But now that you mention it - what if I did want to hang a big, heavy power block/transformer on there, like for a printer. Over time, it could wiggle the box loose. Same deal with repeated plugging and unplugging over time.

But if I set that same box nicely in a perfectly cut drywall hole - then drilled 2 holes at a 45 into the stud - I'm sure I could get two screws in clean. I wonder if they make plastic screws....
You'd be surprised how securely the old-work (wing) boxes hold. A transformer would hold fine, no problem.

Also, don't double up the ground under one screw, against code. Cut a short length of bare copper, attach that to the ground screw on the outlet. Then take the other end of that wire and put it in a wirenut with the other two groud wires. This is called "pigtailing".
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Old 02-17-2011, 09:21 AM   #12
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Add new electrical socket 7 feet above existing one


Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkandArc View Post
I actually like your code on this, but I also like to discuss the code. I was working under article 314.23(b)(1) which is under "installation" and which yours is under "construction specification". I understand if you don't like the practice of this type of installation, and I will be having a discussion about this exact "gray area" during our next inspection with our local AHJ. I will get back to you with how this turns out.
Using screws thru the side is not how the box was tested during its Listing and Labeling, therefore it is a 110.3 violation.

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