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-   -   Add 14-50 240v 50amp plug in garage or Add entire panel and 240v plug on Old House. (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/add-14-50-240v-50amp-plug-garage-add-entire-panel-240v-plug-old-house-181334/)

wowor 06-05-2013 03:11 PM

Add 14-50 240v 50amp plug in garage or Add entire panel and 240v plug on Old House.
 
Looking for some advice.

It's a 1960's house with 2 slots left on the main panel. The wires feeding that main panel are 2 thick wires (1 red and 1 black) each with a 70AMP single pole breaker at the main power shutoff panel outside the house where the power comes in. I want to add a Nema 14-50 RV plug in the garage.

My options as I see it are as follows.

1. Shutdown main power outside and use the last two slots in the main panel to run a dedicated line through the attic to the garage and mount the 240v plug.

2. Shutdown main power outside and connect the new wire to the outside of the house just after the main power shutoff (this is also where the main panel ties in), then run the wire through the attic to the garage and mount the 240v plug.

3. Shutdown main power outside and connect the new wire to the outside of the house just after the main power shutoff, then run the wire through the attic to the garage and mount a completely new breaker panel then mount my 50 amp fuse in the new panel located in the garage and mount the plug. (I'm thinking this would also give me future expandability as I'm thinking of remodeling the garage into an extra bedroom or more.)

If I do one of these, will I need to upgrade the existing 2 70AMP breakers at the main shutoff and if so, by how much?

TarheelTerp 06-05-2013 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wowor (Post 1195732)
If I do one of these, will I need to upgrade the existing 2 70AMP breakers at the main shutoff and if so, by how much?

2pole breakers aren't expensive.
That's the nickle and dime end of the job.

Size is based on the wire used and length of run

Quote:

run a dedicated line through the attic to the garage and mount the 240v plug.
run the wire through the attic to the garage and mount the 240v plug.
run the wire through the attic to the garage and mount
If I was gonna go to all that trouble I'd do it with the wire/cable that gave me the most options going down the road.

Note1) Whether you install a panel in the garage (now) or not have the bigger wire out there. You can still use it to feed the RV device.

Note2) If you need more breaker space in the house you can add a sub panel there or shuffle the deck some or just use a few tandems.

hth

AandPDan 06-05-2013 03:39 PM

Attached or detached garage? Does it already have power?

You can't have two separate feeders to a detached structure.

wowor 06-05-2013 04:52 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Here's a photo of the main cutoff to the house. The top (right side of photo) is incoming from the street and each one of those breakers are very old single pole 70 amp breakers. Question is this.

If I run a new line with very thick gauge wire from here to the attached garage, I/my electrician would simply screw in two new wires to the bottom of the breaker, and the ground, yes? But do I need to also upgrade these two older 70 amp breakers to a higher amperage so they wont trip when I activate the 50+ amp 2nd breaker box in the garage?

TarheelTerp 06-05-2013 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wowor (Post 1195773)
Here's a photo of the main cutoff to the house.

Gotcha. Go the actual breaker panel with all the branch circuits.
What do you have there? (take a pic too)

Quote:

do I need to also upgrade...
If all this means that your entire service is under those 70A breakers?
Yeah, your rather small service will need updating.
But it won't be just changing those two breakers.

md2lgyk 06-05-2013 06:02 PM

If you indeed only have 70A service, I'd suggest a service upgrade before trying to put in your RV receptacle.

wowor 06-06-2013 11:31 AM

I have 70amp service for the house (1200sqft) and 40amp service to the HVAC condenser.

So what I would like to do is tap into that line before the 70amp breaker but I would have no way to shut off the power going to it so it would be deadly hot. At that same spot I have another separate dedicated line coming from the meter that goes to the HVAC condenser and that also has its own 40amp fuses and its own separate shutoff handle.

I want to tap into the main meter and run a dedicated line to a new 50-70 amp panel in the garage. Then I install my 50 amp breaker and run my Nema 14-50 plug off that breaker and I have a little expandability if I need it in the garage area.

How do I tap in directly to the meter safely so I can run my new line to the new panel in the garage?

TarheelTerp 06-06-2013 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wowor (Post 1196243)
I have 70amp service for the house (1200sqft) and 40amp service to the HVAC condenser.

It is VERY unusual to have two separate services to one structure and especially not at such small size.

As requested earlier... please take a photo of your main panel showing all the breakers (or fuses) used to feed and protect the branch circuits.

wowor 06-06-2013 03:13 PM

camera isn't uploading right now :(.

You have the meter. Then a conduit comes out the bottom of the meter which heads to a fuse box with 40 amp fuses which then heads to the condenser.

There is a second and separate conduit coming out the left side of the meter which heads to the 70amp breakers in the photo and then continues to the main panel inside the house. My main panel is 95% full with 2 slots left. I'd rather not run directly off this panel and would like to run as directly from the meter if possible.

flasherz 06-06-2013 03:54 PM

Are you going to use this for an RV or for charging an EV?

If it's for charging an EV, you will definitely need to have your service upgraded. Some EV's are beginning to draw continuous loads of 40A (mine even draws 80A) while charging.

You will likely find that you're better off upgrading your service, replacing that aging 70A disconnect with something rated a bit higher, that could provide a both a feeder to your home's panel and a branch to the garage (as long as it's not detached, as mentioned earlier).


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