Adapting 240V 4-conductor - Electrical - DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum


Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-23-2013, 10:27 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 363
Rewards Points: 284
Default

Adapting 240V 4-conductor


Hi All,

I built a portable sub panel for a band using a NEMA 10-50 range plug. This works just fine for them but occasionally they will play a place that has an older 3 prong dryer receptacle.

What would be the proper way to use this panel with a 3 conductor configuration?

Also, could someone shed some light on grounding the neutral bar to the box? Should it be done or not? In my main panel at home the neutral and ground bars are attached to each other and to the panel. When should the neutral bar not be grounded to the panel?

Thanks for your help.

Advertisement

Richo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:15 PM   #2
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Eighty Four, Pa.15330
Posts: 1,415
Rewards Points: 828
Default

Adapting 240V 4-conductor


Never tie neutral and grounds together on a remote panel as you desribed although all stage hands have done this at one time or another.You need a 4-wire receptacle and plug.

Advertisement

bobelectric is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to bobelectric For This Useful Post:
micromind (05-23-2013)
Old 05-23-2013, 11:21 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 363
Rewards Points: 284
Default

Adapting 240V 4-conductor


But what do you do when only a 3 wire plug is available? Are you able to drop the neutral?
Richo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:24 PM   #4
Sparky
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 703
Rewards Points: 504
Default

Adapting 240V 4-conductor


No, 4 wire is required.
Techy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:26 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Indiana (USA)
Posts: 1,318
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Adapting 240V 4-conductor


Quote:
Originally Posted by Richo View Post
Hi All,

I built a portable sub panel for a band using a NEMA 10-50 range plug. This works just fine for them but occasionally they will play a place that has an older 3 prong dryer receptacle.

What would be the proper way to use this panel with a 3 conductor configuration?
I'm a bit confused. The 10-50 is a 3-prong, so it should fit the dryer receptacle.
Attached Images
   
__________________
Installation is the Reverse of Removal.
sirsparksalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:32 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Eighty Four, Pa.15330
Posts: 1,415
Rewards Points: 828
Default

Adapting 240V 4-conductor


Spark alot,the picture you showed is commonly called a range receptacle. A dryer receptacle has the L shaped prong. Richo make a 30-50 amp cheater cord to get the band going.If you tell the venue they need to run the proper receptacle,maybe they will listen .

Last edited by bobelectric; 05-23-2013 at 11:41 PM.
bobelectric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:35 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 363
Rewards Points: 284
Default

Adapting 240V 4-conductor


My mistake, I meant to say NEMA 14-50.

The NEMA 10-50 is the receptacle on the wall of one bar they play. Bands use it all the time so apparently they are dropping the neutral or ground, or tying them together.
Richo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:47 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Indiana (USA)
Posts: 1,318
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Adapting 240V 4-conductor


Quote:
Originally Posted by bobelectric View Post
Spark alot,the picture you showed is commonly called a range receptacle. A dryer receptacle has the L shaped prong.
Tis true, Bob, but then a dryer is normally 30a, not 50. I looked up the 10-50, as OP described.
__________________
Installation is the Reverse of Removal.
sirsparksalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2013, 11:51 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Indiana (USA)
Posts: 1,318
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Adapting 240V 4-conductor


I guess that's another spot to consider. Is the 3-prong at the bar a 30a dryer, or a 50a 3-prong range?

EDIT: am I confused again?
__________________
Installation is the Reverse of Removal.

Last edited by sirsparksalot; 05-23-2013 at 11:54 PM. Reason: I am confused
sirsparksalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 12:01 AM   #10
" Euro " electrician
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WI & France { in France for now }
Posts: 5,369
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Adapting 240V 4-conductor


Quote:
Originally Posted by Richo View Post
My mistake, I meant to say NEMA 14-50.

The NEMA 10-50 is the receptacle on the wall of one bar they play. Bands use it all the time so apparently they are dropping the neutral or ground, or tying them together.
That useally not the best move with that set up and I have ran into that situation pretty often when someone try to cheapen up the system like that.

The only safe way is have that bar to run a proper 14-50 receptale / circuit that will take care of netural / ground issue plus some case it will knock down a bit of audio noise as well.

With 120 volts stuff what you have and use the proper portable subpanel that will work just fine with 14-50 set up but a nice gotcha from time to time due some bars I know they will use 208 volts instead of 240 volts due the triphase supply ( there are few case they will use 240 volts triphase that will get ya a suprised so give you a head up use the voltmeter to verify the power before you turn on any expensive items on. )

Merci,
Marc
__________________
The answer will be based on NEC ( National Electrical code ) or CEC ( Cananda Electrical code ) or ECF ( Electrique Code France )
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 12:11 AM   #11
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Central Indiana (USA)
Posts: 1,318
Rewards Points: 500
Default

Adapting 240V 4-conductor


Richo, just curious, 240v and 30-50 amps for your equipment? What kind of equipment uses that?
__________________
Installation is the Reverse of Removal.
sirsparksalot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 12:20 AM   #12
" Euro " electrician
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WI & France { in France for now }
Posts: 5,369
Rewards Points: 2,000
Default

Adapting 240V 4-conductor


Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsparksalot View Post
Richo, just curious, 240v and 30-50 amps for your equipment? What kind of equipment uses that?
Sirsparksalot.,

IIRC the only major 240 volts load I know some will use is big arse spotlights or large floodlight and that about it. ( only in USA side )

But with more modern LED luminaires that will really reduce the amout of the power useage to the luminaries but for the sound system it will NEVER change at all and it will always be on 120 volts unless you have monster unit which it can blow the wall off the foundation.

Merci,
Marc
__________________
The answer will be based on NEC ( National Electrical code ) or CEC ( Cananda Electrical code ) or ECF ( Electrique Code France )
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to frenchelectrican For This Useful Post:
MTN REMODEL LLC (05-24-2013), sirsparksalot (05-24-2013)
Old 05-24-2013, 05:59 AM   #13
Electrical Contractor
 
Philly Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SE PA
Posts: 1,138
Rewards Points: 502
Default

Adapting 240V 4-conductor


i think this would be considered a temp setup ...
__________________
Philadelphia Master Electrician-Generac Dealer
Philly Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 06:42 AM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Nashua, NH, USA
Posts: 6,977
Rewards Points: 2,050
Default

Adapting 240V 4-conductor


Buy or make cheater cords (with some limitations). Here you want an adapter with a 4 prong receptacle for your portable subpanel and a 3 prong plug (hot hot neutral) to connect with the venue's electrical system. Have a green pigtal coming from your adapter to connect to a known ground.

You may also need cord adapters for other different amperage receptacles. You will need to construct your subpanel for and provide it with a plug for the largest amperage circuit that a venue may provide. For example you may not build an adapter with a 40 amp receptacle and a 50 amp plug although vice versa is okay.

(Your portable subpanel does not have neutral and ground bonded.)

In this situation I suggest just making do rather than tell the venue you need such and such (a receptacle or whatever). You don't want to lose gigs over technicalities.
__________________
Forget super sized fries. The Washington Redskins could promote healthy eating with First Lady Obama by choosing a (red skinned) turnip for a mascot.

Last edited by AllanJ; 05-24-2013 at 07:02 AM.
AllanJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2013, 08:09 AM   #15
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 164
Rewards Points: 150
Default

Adapting 240V 4-conductor


Iwould offer this solution purchase a spa panel with a 50A GFI rated at 6 milliamp trip. Attach a three prong male to the line side ( hot,hot,neutral) and a four prong female to the load of the 50 GFI . Seperate the neutral and ground.

Advertisement

usair is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to usair For This Useful Post:
MTN REMODEL LLC (05-24-2013)
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
240v questions.... ITSANSS Electrical 16 05-11-2011 06:40 PM
NEC Junction Box Conductor FIll: A Single Splice is counted as Two Conductors? Lovegasoline Electrical 7 12-02-2009 11:44 PM
two 20amp circuits on 12/3 wire Red Squirrel Electrical 18 08-14-2009 08:02 PM
Do you think a tool running at 240v works better than at 120v? Piedmont Electrical 39 07-03-2009 10:50 PM
Range Outlet Receptical Wiring - PICS nave Electrical 45 05-29-2008 07:37 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts