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Old 07-27-2012, 10:16 PM   #16
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Above ground pool circuit


Quote:
Originally Posted by electures View Post
First, New Jersey is using the 2011 NEC unless you specified the 2008 NEC when you filed for the permit. Second, romex is only permitted "inside" the dwelling (Speedy Pete will disagree). However, I know several inspectors in NJ who will not accept romex outside. Ask your local EI before you start. GFI protection is only required on up to 20amp 120/240 volt circuits. What size is the motor?
What do you mean by outside? The simple fact of inserting the cable into the back of a bell box? I wouldn't consider that outside either. If you do, you better show me a WP breaker for a 3R panel. lol....


And I have also heard of electricians that when a 1 1/2 HP pump installed they opt for the 25 amp breaker. sneaky.

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Old 07-27-2012, 10:19 PM   #17
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Motor is 1HP - 110V.
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Old 07-27-2012, 10:20 PM   #18
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Motor is 1HP - 110V.
i would convert the circuit to 240v if possible.

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Old 07-28-2012, 12:33 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375

What do you mean by outside? The simple fact of inserting the cable into the back of a bell box? I wouldn't consider that outside either. If you do, you better show me a WP breaker for a 3R panel. lol....

And I have also heard of electricians that when a 1 1/2 HP pump installed they opt for the 25 amp breaker. sneaky.
The wire entering the bell box is outside the dwelling. 690 only allows romex inside. Sounds like nit picking but code is code. I know several inspectors in new jersey who will not accept it.

As for the 1 hp motor, the breaker can be as high as 40 amp and gfi is not required for anything over 20 amp.

Under the 2008nec #14 can be used. Under the2011 #12 has to be used.
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Last edited by electures; 07-28-2012 at 12:43 AM.
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:33 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by electures View Post
The wire entering the bell box is outside the dwelling. 690 only allows romex inside. Sounds like nit picking but code is code. I know several inspectors in new jersey who will not accept it.
Mike Holt used to have a graphic showing this exact installation, and I agree that it's nitpicking, so playing devils advocate, if I cut in an old work box, for the pool pump receptacle, that would be accepted? Just not a bell box that is also fastened to the structure?
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Old 07-28-2012, 08:51 AM   #21
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Above ground pool circuit


Not to hijack but I had a similar thread about a month ago had a lot of good info in it about requirements:


Underground Run To Outlet For Pool. LB fitting out of siding?

Last edited by collegetry; 07-28-2012 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:40 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375

Mike Holt used to have a graphic showing this exact installation, and I agree that it's nitpicking, so playing devils advocate, if I cut in an old work box, for the pool pump receptacle, that would be accepted? Just not a bell box that is also fastened to the structure?
Good point. Earlier this year I asked Robert McCollougha (misspelled) who is past international president of IAEI and chairperson of the cmp for article 680 about this exact scenario. He told me that if you follow the letter of the code, romex is not permitted outside the the dwelling. He also thought it was nitpicking. However, since the op is from new jersey, and there are EI,s here who follow the letter of the code , I felt I should warn the op.
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Old 07-28-2012, 09:48 AM   #23
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I'm curious if the CMP's only intention was for pools installed indoors or the wording just got lost on paper of the true intention of what they were allowing? IMO, the NEC would be twice as thick if they actually had to spell out every little intent of code sections like this one...

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Old 07-28-2012, 12:05 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375
I'm curious if the CMP's only intention was for pools installed indoors or the wording just got lost on paper of the true intention of what they were allowing? IMO, the NEC would be twice as thick if they actually had to spell out every little intent of code sections like this one...
Even if they did that people would still disagree. This is where experience comes in to play. Look at how many unqualified people think the handbook is code.

On another note, the 1 1/2 hp pump motor you referred to earlier cannot be connected to the 20a twist lock. It's a violation.
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:08 PM   #25
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On another note, the 1 1/2 hp pump motor you referred to earlier cannot be connected to the 20a twist lock. It's a violation.
I'll bite, how so?
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:13 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375

I'll bite, how so?
Lol. Check out 430.109 (G). The twist lock is required to be horsepower rated. A 20a twist lock is rated up to 1 hp. Can't use it on a 1 1/2hp motor.
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:18 PM   #27
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Lol. Check out 430.109 (G). The twist lock is required to be horsepower rated. A 20a twist lock is rated up to 1 hp. Can't use it on a 1 1/2hp motor.
2005 NEC

430.109 (G) Torque Motors. For torque motors, the disconnecting means shall be permitted to be a general-use switch.

Is there a cross reference to the 2005?

Never mind, it's 430.109 (F)

Thank you by the way.
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:22 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375

2005 NEC

430.109 (G) Torque Motors. For torque motors, the disconnecting means shall be permitted to be a general-use switch.

Is there a cross reference to the 2005?

Never mind, it's 430.109 (F)

Thank you by the way.
Sorry. Quoted from memory.
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:25 PM   #29
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Sorry. Quoted from memory.
I was just about to edit my signature about people shooting from the hip with code sections, too.
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Old 07-28-2012, 12:29 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375

I was just about to edit my signature about people shooting from the hip with code sections, too.
Hey I was off by one sentence. Better then quoting "page ?? of the 1500 page book". Lol.

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