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Above ground pool circuit

4K views 31 replies 6 participants last post by  electures 
#1 ·
Hello - I want to install a 24' above ground pool in NJ and to feed the pump I plan to use an existing outlet in a dedicated 20 amp circuit that is on the exterior wall of the house and was installed by the builder 10 years ago. I understand the latest code requires insulated (green) ground for pool circuits but since this was installed a while ago, the ground is bare and not insulated. Is this acceptable for inspection purposes? I cannot run another circuit to the pump because it is to be located in an area where the basement has been finished. Distance from this outlet to the pool wall is 13'. The other question is given the distance to the pool, is there need for twist n lock or a regular GFCI will do it?
For the convenience outlet and bonding elements I do not have any issues. Thanks for your comments!
 
#22 ·
stickboy1375 said:
Mike Holt used to have a graphic showing this exact installation, and I agree that it's nitpicking, so playing devils advocate, if I cut in an old work box, for the pool pump receptacle, that would be accepted? Just not a bell box that is also fastened to the structure? ;)
Good point. Earlier this year I asked Robert McCollougha (misspelled) who is past international president of IAEI and chairperson of the cmp for article 680 about this exact scenario. He told me that if you follow the letter of the code, romex is not permitted outside the the dwelling. He also thought it was nitpicking. However, since the op is from new jersey, and there are EI,s here who follow the letter of the code , I felt I should warn the op.
 
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#9 ·
Thanks, the pool is 52" high and the pump and filter will be less than 3' from and receptacle and 5" from the exterior wall of the house. I will run rigid PVC for the water to run the 13' from the filter to the pool.
My initial question is because the technically the wire from the house runs through the wall of the house directly into the receptacle.
One more question, the breaker is not a GFCI but the receptacle is, I assume there is no need to change the breaker to a GFCI one, right?
 
#11 ·
Thanks, the pool is 52" high and the pump and filter will be less than 3' from and receptacle and 5" from the exterior wall of the house. I will run rigid PVC for the water to run the 13' from the filter to the pool.
Huh? Not sure I got all that, BUT... just make sure the receptacle for the pool pump is more than 10' away from the pool, OR if not less than 5 feet from the inside walls of the pool, the receptacle must meet the following:
(1) Consist of a single receptacle
(2) Employ a locking configuration
(3) Are of the grounding type
(4) Have GFCI protection



My initial question is because the technically the wire from the house runs through the wall of the house directly into the receptacle.
You are in luck, article 680.21(A)(4) allows this. :)
 
#12 ·
Let me try again, pump receptacle is on the wall of the house (literally), I decided to install the pump and filter close to the house instead of running electrical to the pool. When installed, the filter and pump will be 12' from the pool. It's far less complicated (code wise) running water pipe to the pool than electrical.
 
#15 ·
Juance said:
Thank you, after reading so many interpretations of the NEC 2008 680, I need some reinforcement...
First, New Jersey is using the 2011 NEC unless you specified the 2008 NEC when you filed for the permit. Second, romex is only permitted "inside" the dwelling (Speedy Pete will disagree). However, I know several inspectors in NJ who will not accept romex outside. Ask your local EI before you start. GFI protection is only required on up to 20amp 120/240 volt circuits. What size is the motor?
 
#19 · (Edited)
stickboy1375 said:
What do you mean by outside? The simple fact of inserting the cable into the back of a bell box? I wouldn't consider that outside either. :) If you do, you better show me a WP breaker for a 3R panel. lol....

And I have also heard of electricians that when a 1 1/2 HP pump installed they opt for the 25 amp breaker. :) sneaky. ;)
The wire entering the bell box is outside the dwelling. 690 only allows romex inside. Sounds like nit picking but code is code. I know several inspectors in new jersey who will not accept it.

As for the 1 hp motor, the breaker can be as high as 40 amp and gfi is not required for anything over 20 amp.

Under the 2008nec #14 can be used. Under the2011 #12 has to be used.
 
#20 ·
The wire entering the bell box is outside the dwelling. 690 only allows romex inside. Sounds like nit picking but code is code. I know several inspectors in new jersey who will not accept it.
Mike Holt used to have a graphic showing this exact installation, and I agree that it's nitpicking, so playing devils advocate, if I cut in an old work box, for the pool pump receptacle, that would be accepted? Just not a bell box that is also fastened to the structure? ;)
 
#24 ·
stickboy1375 said:
I'm curious if the CMP's only intention was for pools installed indoors or the wording just got lost on paper of the true intention of what they were allowing? IMO, the NEC would be twice as thick if they actually had to spell out every little intent of code sections like this one...
Even if they did that people would still disagree. This is where experience comes in to play. Look at how many unqualified people think the handbook is code.

On another note, the 1 1/2 hp pump motor you referred to earlier cannot be connected to the 20a twist lock. It's a violation.
 
#26 ·
stickboy1375 said:
I'll bite, how so?
Lol. Check out 430.109 (G). The twist lock is required to be horsepower rated. A 20a twist lock is rated up to 1 hp. Can't use it on a 1 1/2hp motor.
 
#28 ·
stickboy1375 said:
2005 NEC

430.109 (G) Torque Motors. For torque motors, the disconnecting means shall be permitted to be a general-use switch.

Is there a cross reference to the 2005?

Never mind, it's 430.109 (F)

Thank you by the way.
Sorry. Quoted from memory.
 
#30 ·
stickboy1375 said:
I was just about to edit my signature about people shooting from the hip with code sections, too. ;)
Hey I was off by one sentence. Better then quoting "page ?? of the 1500 page book". Lol.
 
#32 ·
stickboy1375 said:
I'm only teasing, it just cracks me up some of the so called 'code requirements' that pop up. :) I think people just get stuck with what they like to do and even if it is above code, that's the only way they see it.

It takes a lot to be an inspector, to accept bare minimum code and over achievers, yet still pass both.
No offense taken. And don't forget the amateurs who think because they wired their own home once, they know everything.
 
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