Above ground pool #8 bonding wire

Yoyizit

Their wet skin/body resistance is higher than 4/.02 = 200 ohms?


With Mr. Holt's video, the thing seems to be, "Should you bond to metal that is insulated from ground, to the pool metal which is grounded?"

If all metal is at the same potential, then no shock ever because no current flow.

If you touch a piece of metal that is insulated from all other conductors, then no shock ever because no current flow.

If future work by clueless people working for PoCo or otherwise changes this grounding situation then you may have a problem.

stickboy1375

Because of perimeter bonding, why do you think we do it?

So when we step out of a pool, while one foot is in the energized water, were not touching something at "ZERO" volts... causing a shock hazard... not everyone understands what bonding is actually doing... We are actually "ENERGIZING" areas around a pool.

stickboy1375

Here is the updated photo. Notice the dates on the photos.

Jim Port

That is why the water is now required to be bonded also.

__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.

stickboy1375

The water was always required, this just made it clear. it was bonded from either metal ladders, light fixtures, etc... as materials change, so do the codes.

Jim Port

OK, so if the water is bonded to the same grid as the walk surface there is no potential.

__________________
Answers based on the National Electrical Code. Local amendments may apply. Check with your local building officials.

Speedy Petey

I see you just watched this new video. LOL
Did you feel this way last week???

I'm not saying it isn't possible, what I am saying is how can you and Mr. Holt remove door and window frames from 680.26(B)(7) (@ 1:02:02 in the video)???
HOW is this ANY different than the fence, antenna, etc???

Sorry, I DO NOT agree with you or Mr. Holt in this case.

__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.

stickboy1375

Yes. Also, if someone just happened to throw a 2 wire appliance with a 2 wire cord, the GFCI will trip as well. That one is stretching it, but hey, people do weird stuff.

stickboy1375

Why would you want it energized? That is my question. I didn't just watch this video, but i do seek knowledge to things I don't understand.

And i found this video very educational vs what you would learn in the trade, or on an online forum.

stickboy1375

Because, how are you going to get shocked by a door frame while entering or exiting a pool?

personally Speedy, I have never done a pool that close to a structure to begin with, so I'm not really worried about this code section, but i can tell you that I will never bond a window, door or gutter either.

stickboy1375

Would you ever bond a window or door frame if you never saw the 2004 picture vs the 2006?

Speedy Petey

Well I though so as you were parroting exactly what Holt was saying.

You obviously do not want it energized. But those things will be NO MORE energized than the fence, antenna, ladder, handrail, etc.


I guess ANYTHING'S possible. If the frames are bonded then they are at the same potential as the ground and any other metal in the area. Somebody soaking wet could be holding the chain link fence and grab the door frame at the same time.

In Mr. Holt's own example, the lifeguard grabbed both rails, one was bonded, one was not. EXACT same situation.


What do the pics have to do with it?
If it was code, yes. Those pictures are not in my code book.

__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.

stickboy1375

I've watched that video about 6 times, it just grabs my attention to what IS going on, and i wasn't trying to make myself look smarter by my comments, but they make people think what they are doing rather than that's what I do, I can't stand the latter...

In general, I hate how pride becomes an issue with being wrong, personally, if Im wrong I want to know, but in a nice way. The thread about dead ended wires being in a wall was tasteless and lets just say, less to be desired for.

Speedy Petey

Thankfully I did not even see that thread until after it was locked.

__________________
Sometimes I feel like if I answer any more questions it is like someone trying to climb over a fence to jump off a bridge and me giving them a boost.

Yoyizit

There still may be, although probably nobody ever died from it.

IIRC fresh water in the pool is less conductive than concrete and so you've got ground currents flowing through resistances of different values and so you almost certainly will have potential differences.
It is sort of a three dimensional electrical network with excellent conductors, and semiconductors (water, concrete, earth, human bodies).

If anybody has a pool and a voltmeter I'd like to see what kind of voodoo voltages you get. >2v is probably troublesome.

In the US, less than 5000 fatalities per year is "down in the noise" and elec. fatalities are about 1700/yr. Public policy and NEC policy is about making these kinds of tradeoffs.