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Old 05-30-2012, 10:10 AM   #16
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Above ground pool #8 bonding wire


Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseymom3 View Post
bonding wire not seatbelts
what does that have to do with anything!!
It should be MY CHOICE
I came on here to ask a question
could get an answer not get stupid
yes I said stupid comments back
You have anger management issues. . . but being from NJ myself I can see how you may think your conduct is normal.
That's one reason that I left the NJ/NYC area.

These guys are trying to help you. You asked, they answered.

Personally, I think the seat belt analogy is not so bad. There may never be a voltage on your pool and you may never get in a crash, but in both cases you have bonding or a belt to minimize injury.

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Last edited by Yoyizit; 05-30-2012 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:14 AM   #17
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Above ground pool #8 bonding wire


Yes some where trying to help you are right. I do not have anger problems at all I am very laid back person. I Was not insulting anyone by saying the code was stupid I was voicing my opinion. I have asked many electricians and they all think this code was a little over board on above ground pools.I was simply asking where the end of the wire connects to because I was getting to many diffrent answers. That is what I thought this site was for
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:20 AM   #18
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Above ground pool #8 bonding wire


Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseymom3 View Post
Yes some where trying to help you are right. I do not have anger problems at all I am very laid back person. I Was not insulting anyone by saying the code was stupid I was voicing my opinion. I have asked many electricians and they all think this code was a little over board on above ground pools.I was simply asking where the end of the wire connects to because I was getting to many diffrent answers. That is what I thought this site was for
Laid back, maybe by New Yawk standards. . .

You might be able to ask the NFPA about the rationale for this rule for your particular case. However, the person I e-mailed there once was a bit of a spin doctor.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:27 AM   #19
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Above ground pool #8 bonding wire


Quote:
Originally Posted by jerseymom3 View Post
Yes some where trying to help you are right. I do not have anger problems at all I am very laid back person. I Was not insulting anyone by saying the code was stupid I was voicing my opinion. I have asked many electricians and they all think this code was a little over board on above ground pools.I was simply asking where the end of the wire connects to because I was getting to many diffrent answers. That is what I thought this site was for
I'm not trying to start anything, but you are voicing an opinion from a point of view that is not an educated one. You are the owner, cost is a big thing for homeowners, many times, its the largest factor when forming opinions or basing decisions.

There are many reasons safety precautions have been implemented. Cost is not a reason to not require something. Think about the cost/hassle of bonding the pool correctly VS the cost/hassle of the lawsuit your "friend" drops on you when they are injured because you didn't do it properly.

edit: I applaud you for asking the questions so you do do it properly, but it gets under my skin a little bit when the attitude of "they are out to screw me" (in relation to codes) is present.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:29 AM   #20
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NOT FROM NY not even close. But thanks
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:52 AM   #21
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Wanna start this over?

What 4 points do you know need to be connected to the bonding wire?
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:27 AM   #22
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Above ground pool #8 bonding wire


This is from the 2011 680.26

(2) Perimeter Surfaces. The perimeter surface shall extend
for 1 m (3 ft) horizontally beyond the inside walls of
the pool and shall include unpaved surfaces, as well as
poured concrete surfaces and other types of paving. Perimeter
surfaces less than 1 m (3 ft) separated by a permanent
wall or building 1.5 m (5 ft) in height or more shall require
equipotential bonding on the pool side of the permanent
wall or building. Bonding to perimeter surfaces shall be
provided as specified in 680.26(B)(2)(a) or (2)(b) and shall
be attached to the pool reinforcing steel or copper conductor
grid at a minimum of four (4) points uniformly spaced
around the perimeter of the pool. For nonconductive pool
shells, bonding at four points shall not be required.

Note sure if this even applies to the OPs situation. Not enough detail is known about the pool.
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Last edited by Jim Port; 05-30-2012 at 11:29 AM. Reason: added thought
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:54 AM   #23
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Thanks to all that helped I got my answer
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Old 05-30-2012, 11:56 AM   #24
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Above ground pool #8 bonding wire


you indicated the pool is mot made of metal.If not, what is it made from? Is this a permanant instalation or is this one of the bell shaped plastic pools?
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:06 PM   #25
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Above ground pool #8 bonding wire


Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey View Post
How in the world would you propose the frame would become energized.
This is a bond, not a ground. You do know the difference?

If a metal frame of a window or door is within the specified are then it must be bonded, plain and simple.
Speedy, you are not thinking clearly of what it is we "ARE" doing... lets say the utility company has a 4v voltage drop on the primary neutral, which is connected to the secondary neutral at the transformer, that secondary neutral is bonded to the meter, panel, and of course our grounding conductors, which we happen to run to every pool motor and we happen to connect our pool bond wire to as well...

so now you know how were "ENERGIZING" a metal door frame, now picture this, imagine an open primary neutral and tell me what voltage you think that door frame would be at?

IMO, the NEC never intender for something like metal door frame or window to be bonded, it makes no sense.
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:10 PM   #26
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Above ground pool #8 bonding wire


Quote:
Originally Posted by stickboy1375 View Post
Speedy, you are not thinking clearly of what it is we "ARE" doing... lets say the utility company has a 4v voltage drop on the primary neutral, which is connected to the secondary neutral at the transformer, that secondary neutral is bonded to the meter, panel, and of course our grounding conductors, which we happen to run to every pool motor and we happen to connect our pool bond wire to as well...

so now you know how were "ENERGIZING" a metal door frame, now picture this, imagine an open primary neutral and tell me what voltage you think that door frame would be at?

If this doomsday scenario is even possible, then how is it that hundreds of people a year are not killed by this, considering that there are hundreds of thousands of pools wired exactly this way???
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Answers based on the 2008 & 2011 NEC.
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:10 PM   #27
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Above ground pool #8 bonding wire


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I like pictures.

Mike Holt who publishes these drawings even concludes the door frame and window should not be bonded. He had a good chuckle when discussing this very picture.
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:11 PM   #28
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Above ground pool #8 bonding wire


Even if the voltage were to be 120 the entire area would be raised to the same potential. Without a difference in potential there is no shock hazard.
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:12 PM   #29
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Above ground pool #8 bonding wire


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If this doomsday scenario is even possible, then how is it that hundreds of people a year are not killed by this, considering that there are hundreds of thousands of pools wired exactly this way???

Doomsday? How do you think people really get shocked? It's because the POOL is what is energized, from the utility company, the surrounding decking is what is at ZERO volts... think about it!
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:14 PM   #30
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Above ground pool #8 bonding wire




Watch this ENTIRE video, and then tell me I'm wrong.

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