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Old 11-26-2008, 09:28 AM   #16
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60AMP Subpanel Wire Size/Type Question


The THHN I priced is called "WCU THHN 6 STR 5000". Is the W in this for waterproof (THWN)?

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Old 11-26-2008, 10:56 AM   #17
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60AMP Subpanel Wire Size/Type Question


This is the spool information we need the specifications off the outer sheath of the wire.
If this came off the outersheath then it would not be imo thwn rated.
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Old 11-26-2008, 11:30 AM   #18
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The THHN I priced is called "WCU THHN 6 STR 5000". Is the W in this for waterproof (THWN)?
I called the local elec store who said I can run this in underground conduit.

The 6-6-6-10 option above appears to be the cheapest at 2.07/ft.
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Old 11-26-2008, 12:43 PM   #19
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60AMP Subpanel Wire Size/Type Question


Ok... but before I walk out of the place with it I'd check the insulation outer sheath for THWN somewhere or when you get home contact the manufacturer of the wire for clarification. That is not a UL approved marking for wet locations as you posted it.

For those wanting to learn about wire types and insulation this would be a good bookmark/favorite....

http://www-group.slac.stanford.edu/essg/pdf/mgwire.pdf


How hard would it be for you to run PVC panel to panel? This would eliminate the splice from nm-b to thwn. It's not a big deal I just hate splicing feeders..

Things you need to know

Burial depth for pvc conduit is 18 inches ...direct burial is 24 inches

If you use #6 nm-b transitioning to thwn in conduit your allowed ampacity is 55 amps you can use a 60 amp breaker or smaller in this situation.

UF-b is 55 amps for #6 also 60 amp breaker or smaller

Panel to panel with pvc conduit and thwn allows 65 amps and you may use a 70 amp breaker or smaller. I would use 1 inch conduit but 3/4 will work.

As mentioned 4 wire feeder with neutral and ground separated (not bonded) in the sub panel inside the garage. SEE attached diagram. Reason I say this is that 4 wires are required in the feeder if you run phone/data lines out there or metal water pipes.

Since you say you are not under any jurisdiction for electrical inspections (better to be sure of that) it would be my understanding that a breezeway would make the garage attached and no ground rod would be required at the sub-panel. But that is not a certainty.
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Old 11-26-2008, 01:00 PM   #20
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Ok... but before I walk out of the place with it I'd check the insulation outer sheath for THWN somewhere or when you get home contact the manufacturer of the wire for clarification.
Good drawing. It is fairly accurate. The one side of my breezeway has a wall to block the wind, and there is already two circuits running into the garage (through the breezeway roof) so I consider it 'attached'.

I did not buy the wire yet, but will verify the THWN. I will add a ground bar to the subpanel. Thanks for your time on this.
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Old 11-26-2008, 01:09 PM   #21
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60AMP Subpanel Wire Size/Type Question


Quote:
Originally Posted by xv144 View Post
The THHN I priced is called "WCU THHN 6 STR 5000". Is the W in this for waterproof (THWN)?
Here is this item decoded:

W = Wire
CU = Copper
THHN = type THHN
6 = #6 AWG
STR = Stranded
5000 = cut from a master reel which originally contained 5000 feet

FWIW, most THHN out there today is also rated THWN as well as MTW.

You may even find that it is rated THHN/THWN-2
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Old 11-26-2008, 01:12 PM   #22
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....Since you say you are not under any jurisdiction for electrical inspections (better to be sure of that) it would be my understanding that a breezeway would make the garage attached and no ground rod would be required at the sub-panel. But that is not a certainty.
Pennsylvania does not have any license requirements. Some of the local cities, towns, or counties (townships?) may have their own quirky rules, however.
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Old 11-28-2008, 07:51 AM   #23
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60AMP Subpanel Wire Size/Type Question


Another Question:
Can I put a 60AMP GFI circuit breaker in the main panel going to this subpanel so I don't have to put all GFI circuits in the subpanel?
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Old 11-28-2008, 08:32 AM   #24
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60AMP Subpanel Wire Size/Type Question


Putting a GFCI breaker on the feeder will provide protection if you can find one that is rated at 60 Amps. Most manufacturers only make suitable breakers up to 50 Amps that include the grounded circuit conductor.

HOWEVER, it can be most inconvenient when you trip it out, as it will cut off everything, including any lighting you may have connected to the subpanel.

I would not recommend doing this, but instead install individual GFCI devices on each circuit where required. This will enable you to more quickly determine which is the offending circuit/device when it trips out.
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Old 11-28-2008, 09:04 AM   #25
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... it can be most inconvenient when you trip it out.

I would not recommend doing this, but instead install individual GFCI devices on each circuit where required.
Makes sense. You guys are great (and fast). Thanks again.
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Old 11-28-2008, 10:31 AM   #26
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60AMP Subpanel Wire Size/Type Question


I will agree with KBsparky it far much cheaper to buy indivual GFCI receptales than get two pole GFCI breaker { those don't come cheap }

However speaking about the GFCI receptales if you are on 2008 code cycle ALL the 120 volt 15 and 20 amp circuits in the garage have to be GFCI'ed that do included the GDO { Garage door opener }

Merci,Marc
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Old 11-28-2008, 11:43 AM   #27
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60AMP Subpanel Wire Size/Type Question


only readily accessible outlets need to be gfci. This excludes the door opener and lights. The wall outlets, however, do need to be gfci.
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Old 11-28-2008, 11:48 AM   #28
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only readily accessible outlets need to be gfci. This excludes the door opener and lights. The wall outlets, however, do need to be gfci.
Depends on what code cycle your on, 2008 did away with those exceptions. just FYI.
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Old 11-28-2008, 03:28 PM   #29
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Depends on what code cycle your on, 2008 did away with those exceptions. just FYI.
My area adopted the 08 code, but left the 05 code in for gfci's and arcfaults.
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Old 11-28-2008, 07:02 PM   #30
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I plan on doing all GFI's in the garage.

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