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Old 07-09-2008, 01:53 PM   #1
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6 Wire sub-panel


I am currently walling off the third stall of my attached garage to use as a workshop. To this end, I am adding a subpanel in the workshop for my tools. I plan on using a 30 amp dbl pl breaker in the main to supply power (so I will have 60 amps of 110, correct?) The kicker is, I only have 10/2 romex (black, white, and ground). Now I know I can't do a 3wire setup. I could go out and buy some 10/3 romex but I have a ton of the 10/2 (and copper is expensive). Would it be ok to use two 10/2 cables?
So I would have Cable A and Cable B
Cable A Black - Hot 1
Cable A white - Neutral
Cable A Bare - Ground
Cable B Black - Hot 2
Cable B White - unused
Cable B Bare - unused (but I would connect it to the main gnd buss)

Does this make sense? Or have I touched one too many live electrical circuits.

Thanks

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Old 07-09-2008, 03:05 PM   #2
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6 Wire sub-panel


No 30 amps is 30 amps even if it is a DP if you want 60 amps get a 60 amp breaker. Not sure if code says that you can hook it up the way you say. my guess is no you cant. Buy some 3 wire cable of the appropriate size.

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Old 07-09-2008, 03:19 PM   #3
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I thought it was 30 amps on each pole, are you saying its only 15 amps on each pole?
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Old 07-09-2008, 03:27 PM   #4
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30 amps 240 volts with a neutral is 60 amps total power at 120 volts. 30 amps per leg.

Go check your private message daxinarian.
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Old 07-09-2008, 08:32 PM   #5
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no, this isn't legal and quite "ghetto", but yes, it would work. Just buy some 10/3 and have it done right

And yes, you would have 30 amps on each leg. But say you put a 220 welder or something that is 20 amps at 220. That would be 20 amps on each leg. As long as you aren't planning a big welder or huge air compressor, you should be fine
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Old 07-09-2008, 11:25 PM   #6
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Wow I learned something. Huh whoda thought that a 30 amp breaker means 60 i guess i should have explained better what i meant was that each pole is 30 amps and if either legs exceeds 30 amps they will both trip.
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Old 07-10-2008, 12:32 AM   #7
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correct
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Old 07-10-2008, 07:09 AM   #8
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It is a very bad idea to use jimmy rigged wiring for ANYTHING. Get the right material for the job...

Using 2 sets of 10-2 to create a makeshift 10-3 is an accident/fire waiting to happen.

How far do you need to go?
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Old 07-10-2008, 07:21 AM   #9
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You have romex and at the cost of wire I would cut the cover off and mark the wires with different color tape and use it. As long as you mark the current carrying what does it matter.
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:48 AM   #10
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Well, I found the best solution of all. I picked up my coil of 10/2 and found another coil underneath it. Low and behold, my big coil of 10/2 was actually 2 coils, 1 coil was 10/2 and the other was 10/3.

Maybe my wife is right and I really do need to get organized (don't tell her I said that)

Thank you everyone for your help and advice.
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Old 07-10-2008, 11:50 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CowboyAndy View Post
Using 2 sets of 10-2 to create a makeshift 10-3 is an accident/fire waiting to happen.
i wouldn't go that far, as long as you still hooked up the ground and nuetral on both, id say its plenty safe, just completely ghetto

some people on this board think everything is just going to kill someone.

Last edited by jimmy21; 07-10-2008 at 11:52 PM.
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Old 07-11-2008, 07:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy21 View Post
i wouldn't go that far, as long as you still hooked up the ground and nuetral on both, id say its plenty safe, just completely ghetto

some people on this board think everything is just going to kill someone.
With all due respect, electricity is nothing to mess with, and I always look into the future. What is the OP sells the home down the road and the new home owners don't realize that was done that way?


I understand the price of wire is a bit high right now, but really... what does a 100' roll of 10-3 go for? $150?


Jimmy, ask yourself this. If *you* were hiring a pro sparky with 25 years in the biz, do you think that he would wire it this way? I'd say the answer is no.
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Old 07-11-2008, 10:10 AM   #13
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What if someone took the 2 10-2 cables, connected each black to the double pole breaker. And then connected both whites to the neutral bus and both grounds to the ground bus? Unsafe? Burn the house down?

Change the double pole to 2 single poles and you have 2 ordinary 120v circuits. Found all over your house.

You are on the right track Andy. In the OP the 2nd white was not going to be connected. In a cable assembly, or in a conduit, the hot and neutral cancel the EMF causing heat. (three phase conductors do the same) So having that single black carrying current, and using the white in another cable for the return could cause unwanted heating. Using both whites would eliminate that problem.
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Old 07-12-2008, 03:16 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CowboyAndy View Post
With all due respect, electricity is nothing to mess with, and I always look into the future. What is the OP sells the home down the road and the new home owners don't realize that was done that way?


I understand the price of wire is a bit high right now, but really... what does a 100' roll of 10-3 go for? $150?


Jimmy, ask yourself this. If *you* were hiring a pro sparky with 25 years in the biz, do you think that he would wire it this way? I'd say the answer is no.
right, nobody would want it that way because, like i said before, it would ghetto, but like i said before, its not gonna burn the house down. Way to try to make an argument by changing the subject
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Old 07-14-2008, 12:11 PM   #15
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This still has me thinking...

Since I found the 10/3 wire I will have two hots and a neutral, what bothers me is the two hots are rated for 30amps each (30 amps = 10 gauge), but if I am using 30 amps on each of the two legs (ie: using 60 amps worth of 110 evenly distributed to both legs), doesn't that mean 60 amps of return current is flowing down the single neutral? Or does the return current for leg A and leg B cancel each other out?

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