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Old 03-23-2012, 08:51 PM   #31
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50 Amps for a garage help


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The heater is 120Vac/60hz and 1.5 amps
I would double check the specs on the heater, I have never seen an ELECTRIC heater only draw 1.5 Amps.

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Old 03-23-2012, 09:08 PM   #32
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50 Amps for a garage help


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I would double check the specs on the heater, I have never seen an ELECTRIC heater only draw 1.5 Amps.
Its a kerosene/electric salamander heater I think i stated that in my first post if not sorry about that
this one to be exact

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Old 03-24-2012, 07:57 AM   #33
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50 Amps for a garage help


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Another thing im unsure of is how can i tell if im running 240v or 120v from the house? Im trying to run 240!
Wow....I give the poster some credit trying this endeavor without even knowing how to decipher whether 120 vs. 240 is being run. Good luck if you can learn all you need to know from a forum.


I like this quote from someone else on this site:

Its not that you paid me $100 for one(1) hour of work, it's that you didnt spend ten(10) hours doing one(1) hour of work.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:32 AM   #34
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50 Amps for a garage help


Icyshadowz.

Good luck with your project. In my oppinion a wealth of knowledge is available in remodeling books, electrical books specifically. You will have diagrams, explainations, and ideas set forth in a matter which addresses all general aspects of a projects. Although you know what you want to accomplish a $20-30 investment, or perhaps a trip to the library would put things on paper for you, with a better guide and point of reference. Now I'm not discounting this site by any means since I have learned a great deal here and hopefully shed some light on others projects. But often its better to utilize this site for simple questions or problems rather than full explainations of how something should be done....like the difference between what time is it and how do I build a clock? Anyway you are going in the right direction and asking all the right questions but I still feel that a text book or two may be a easier way for you to learn. Anyway, good luck
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:29 AM   #35
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50 Amps for a garage help


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Wow....I give the poster some credit trying this endeavor without even knowing how to decipher whether 120 vs. 240 is being run. Good luck if you can learn all you need to know from a forum.
Thanks ive got some books at home but they dont really work for me this is how i learn by doing big projects. Im more of a hands on kinda guy if i see it done once ill never forget it and can do it a million times. Trust me i wont do this project till i feel fully knowlaged of what i need for this project. If i can figure out how to program, network, administrate, and build computers(just not into doing all that work anymore) this way Electric sould be easy for me once i start playing with it. I bought a couple of books but in just not retaining the information needed so i figured if i started chating about it. And getting other peoples versons of what they would do i would have it down pat. From my understanding if you want to run 240v you would run a double pole breaker and 120 on a single breaker. On the other end you would need to have either a breaker box or 240 receptacle. Im asking questions that i probly know the answer to but i want someone else to confirm it. I know im over doing it but i want to get it all right. I also know to check it with a multimeter. My Father inlaw is an electriction but hes so busy that he never has time anymore to hang out and show me. So thats why im here to learn what i dont already know. I dont want to be out there and buy all of the things needed to relize OH CRa* i just fried everything i just bought. So on that note Thank you guys for all your suggestions and help along the way and back to the subject at had.

So we are still sitting at Conduit 60amp double pole running 240v 24" in the ground with sand covering top sides and bottom. Still wondering about what suggestions are being made for the breakers in the garage.
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:58 AM   #36
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50 Amps for a garage help


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No, romex is not allowed to be run in conduit underground...it would have to be UF if you REALLY want to pull a cable thru pipe. Otherwise pipe and THHN.
It has to either be UF with conduit to protect the wire going at least 2' below grade or it has to be conduit the whole length with THWN at least 18" below grade.

You have to be sure that the wire is wet rated.
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:06 PM   #37
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50 Amps for a garage help


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It has to either be UF with conduit to protect the wire going at least 2' below grade or it has to be conduit the whole length with THWN at least 18" below grade.

You have to be sure that the wire is wet rated.
That's what I said...
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:07 PM   #38
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50 Amps for a garage help


Not all THHN is wet rated.
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:18 PM   #39
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That's what I said...
Lol its ok i understand thanks Still wondering about the rest of the stuff..
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Old 03-24-2012, 01:23 PM   #40
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50 Amps for a garage help


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From my understanding if you want to run 240v you would run a double pole breaker and 120 on a single breaker.
Still trying to figure this one out.

Just go slow.
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Old 03-24-2012, 01:48 PM   #41
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Still trying to figure this one out.

Just go slow.
Thanks for the support!
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Old 03-24-2012, 07:46 PM   #42
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50 Amps for a garage help


Any new suggestions?
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Old 03-26-2012, 04:12 PM   #43
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50 Amps for a garage help


I am in the middle of doing a very similar project. Let's recap what you have been told.

You will run either 6/3 UF or three 6 gauge THWN and one 10 gauge THWN. Let's talk UF first.

Menards does sell a 125 foot coil of 6/3 UF. It is flat and costs about $350. In my case, it would be very hard to pull through the 1 1/2" conduit I have already buried. Although you can direct bury UF, PVC conduit or rigid metal conduit/pipe (not the thin wall EMT metal conduit) will provide protection for the wire.

If you do not use UF, you can use individual stands of THWN wire. The "W" indicates that the wire is weatherproof. You would want to get #6 black, #6 red, #6 white, and at least a #10 green. The black and red are the hot, and the white is the neutral. The green is the ground. You can run a larger size (#8 or #6) green if you want to.

One thing to consider is running a larger wire, such as #4, if you are running over 75 feet. There will be some voltage drop due to the length of the wire. The calculations say that #6 is OK, but if you ever think you may need more power to the garage, now is the time to run the larger wire.

In the main panel, the electric service to the house is delivered by three wires - a black, red, and white. The black and red each supply 120 volts but are out of phase with each other. The black and red are connected to two lugs either in the center of the top of the box or in the center of the bottom. Each lug is connected to every other stab. The double pole breaker will take power from each input going you 240 volts.

At your main panel, you will want to use a double pole 50 amp breaker. This breaker will span two stabs in the main panel. You will connect your #6 black to one side of the breaker and the #6 red to the other side. The #6 white will connect to the busbar and the #10 green will also connect to the bus bar. In the main panel, the neutral (white) and ground (green) busbars will be connected, or bonded. In a subpanel, they are not. If all of the whites are connected to one busbar and all the greens are connected to the other, follow the pattern.

Flip off the new 50-amp breaker (or better yet, don't hook up the main panel until after you complete work at the subpanel).

In your garage, you will need a subpanel rated for at least 50 amps. The subpanel also will have a specific number of spaces. The number of spaces is the number of circuit breakers and circuits you can run from the panel. Buy one that exceeds your current needs. For example, in my barn, I installed a 125 amp panel four-space subpanel even though I only plan to use 30 amps. The 50 and 60 amp subpanels I originally was looking at only had two spaces. I needed three spaces.

Inside the subpanel, you will most likely find two main lugs for the hot wires and a lug and busbar for the neutral. Before you install any breakers, it will be easy to see how the stabs alternate between main lugs. The subpanel will also have a main lug for the white wire attached to the neutral busbar. Notice that this busbar is isolated from the panel either by being raised or sitting on a plastic tray. Most likely, you will need to install a ground busbar. There are boxes out there with the ground busbar already installed. They just cost more than I wanted to pay. In the same aisle as you found the subpanel, you will find the breakers and accessories, such as busbars. Buy breakers and a busbar that are the same brand as your subpanel so you know that they will fit.

If you happen to buy a subpanel with the ground busbar already installed, you will want to verify that they are not connected. If there is a bracket connecting them, remove the bracket.

If you need to install a ground busbar, position the one that you found so that it is toward one side and lines up over holes already drilled in the box. If you have to, you can drill a hole. I just don't remember what size drillbit you will need.

You will want to "bond" the ground busbar to the box. In the accessories area of the aisle, you will find a fork-shaped piece used to bond the busbar to the box. The single end goes in one of the busbar wire holes. The forked end has a screw put through it to create another physical connection between the ground busbar and the box itself. You will also need a lug for the wire to the ground rod(s). This lug will be attached to the ground busbar.

Even though you will have the #10 green ground wire running back to the main panel, the subpanel needs an additional ground for your protection. In my area, I needed to run #6 stranded bare copper wire from then ground busbar's lug to outside my barn. I ran mine in 3/4" PVC conduit down and under the barn's wall. On the outside, I pounded an 8-foot 5/8" copper coated ground rod into the ground. I dug a 6" deep hole before starting to pound the rod into the ground. In my area, I was required to run either one 5/8" or two 1/2" ground rods. Pound the ground rod so that it is close to ground level, attach the standed bare ground wire using a ground clamp, and bury. The clamp will be in the same aisle as the ground rods and ground wire.

Now you can attach your #6 black wire to one main lug, the #6 red wire to the other main lug, the #6 white wire to the neutral busbar's main lug, and the #10 green wire to the ground busbar.

For each circuit in the subpanel, you connect the black wire to the breaker, the white wire to the neutral busbar, and the green/ground to the ground busbar. IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT YOU DO NOT ATTACH GROUND TO NEUTRAL OR NEUTRAL TO GROUND. With alternating current (AC), the current "alternates" between the hot (black) and neutral (white). The ground is there to provide an isolated path to ground. If you run current through the ground wire, you could get shocked (or worse) by some of your metal-cased power tools.

If there is something that I left out or explained poorly (or just plain wrong), please correct me. The purpose was to explain what needs to be done. The OP can decide whether he is up to the task.
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Old 03-28-2012, 10:29 PM   #44
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50 Amps for a garage help


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I am in the middle of doing a very similar project. Let's recap what you have been told.
See now that wasnt so hard thats exactly what im looking for i still got to finish reading all of what you wrote but thanks a ton.

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The OP can decide whether he is up to the task.
Also wanted to say thanks for that one too and taking the time to write all of that for me. It means a ton!!! I do have a breaker box already its a 6 slot 100 amp breaker. This will be way more then i will ever use at this place. i plan on in 2 years or so 5 at the most selling this house and getting a better one. One of my main things is im trying to figure out what breakers i should use in the box i figured a 15amp would be good for lights and standard receptacles. Would a 20 amp be good for running the power tools. i figured i would hook up like 2 receptacles to it to handle the power tools. Unless you think it should be more im runing miter saws and things of similar nature odds are i wont be running them at the exact same time. And thanks again!!!

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Old 03-29-2012, 08:14 AM   #45
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One of my main things is im trying to figure out what breakers i should use in the box i figured a 15amp would be good for lights and standard receptacles. Would a 20 amp be good for running the power tools. i figured i would hook up like 2 receptacles to it to handle the power tools. Unless you think it should be more im runing miter saws and things of similar nature odds are i wont be running them at the exact same time. And thanks again!!!
Unless you have 20amp or 30 amp tools, all you need is 15amp breakers. That said, in both my garage and barn, I ran 12 gauge wire so I can use 20amps if needed.

As you know, a 15 amp receptacle/outlet has two straight slots and a round ground hole and on a 20amp outlet, neutral slot has a small perpendicular slot. A tool with a 20amp plug cannot be plugged into a 15 amp outlet. In my garage, I ran one circuit with 20amp outlets. The rest all have 15 amp outlets. The best thing to do is to calculate your needs and size the circuit accordingly. If you are not sure, go larger. Unless all of the tools are running at the same time, it does not matter how many outlets you have. I grouped mine by task and kept tasks in specific areas and on the same breaker.

In the garage, I have a 20amp circuit for a freezer, a 20 amp circuit for the workbench, a 15 amp circuit for the other bench which has TV and radio, a 15 amp circuit for the lights, a 15 amp circuit for the gas furnace, a 20 amp circuit for the compressor, a 15 amp circuit for the other outlets, and two unused 30 amp 240v (one for an electric heater and one for larger compressor). I know I put in more circuits than needed, but I also know I will not overload any of them. In the garage, there is no more than 4 feet along the wall between any outlets.

In the barn, I have a 30 amp 120v RV outlet on its own circuit, a 15 amp circuit with one outlet and lights, and a 20 amp circuit which right now has 6 outlets. The barn's outlets are all along two walls.

Another consideration is the type of wire. The garage is insulated and heated with drywall. I wired it with Romex/NM wire. The barn is uninsulated and with the stone floor can get damp. By code, it should be treated as a wet area, and I agree after finding a wet plastic bag that had been left on the floor. I could have used UF or THWN wire. I like the look of conduit better than stapled UF, so I ran PVC conduit and THWN wire. Yes, it cost more, but it looks better and I hate stripping UF wire.

Hope this helps.

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