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Old 07-16-2008, 10:18 PM   #31
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40 amp double pole gfci problem


I'm a bit confused, help me here fellas...

I'm looking at the picture which shows a bus on the left with 6 greens, 1 white and 3 black conductors??

UUf da?

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Old 07-17-2008, 02:56 AM   #32
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40 amp double pole gfci problem


The way I do see you have few serious issue comming up that need to be addressed

The netural wire with wirenutted which one is with GFCI ??

Any reason why the one white wire on ground bar { I know you say from pump motor } did you check the ground wire at pump motor to make sure they match colour ??

Merci,Marc
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:32 AM   #33
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40 amp double pole gfci problem


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Originally Posted by BigJimmy View Post
I'm a bit confused, help me here fellas...

I'm looking at the picture which shows a bus on the left with 6 greens, 1 white and 3 black conductors??

UUf da?

What you actually see are 6 greens, 1 white, and 3 bare ground wires from the NM that enters the back of the panel...

The reason you see a white conductor on that ground bus, if you look at one of the conduits from the bottom of the panel, they ran 3 white conductors to a pump, must be all they had on the truck that day.
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:33 AM   #34
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40 amp double pole gfci problem


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??

Any reason why the one white wire on ground bar { I know you say from pump motor } did you check the ground wire at pump motor to make sure they match colour ??

Merci,Marc
The pump works, so I'd say its good to go... look at the conduit, they ran 3 white conductors to that pump, they re-marked the white wires going to the pump with black tape, check out the top left 2 pole breaker...
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Old 07-17-2008, 09:42 AM   #35
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40 amp double pole gfci problem


Eh.,, Oui { yes } I did see that now Chris but to remark the THHN/THWN that is no excuse to use that much white wire there.

But still with NM's there is a issue there if you see few NM's white conductor and wirenutted then go to either breaker or netural busbar but if it was going to the GFCI breaker then one of the NM circuit is having a issue with GFCI tripping that why need to check more deeper.

IF that OP can do this part if that circuits is 120 v and run by GFCI breaker what he can do is trace both black and white and isolated one by one to to see which one it tripping it then from there it can able do the repairs as need to.

Merci,Marc
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Old 07-18-2008, 07:53 PM   #36
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40 amp double pole gfci problem


Hey:
I thought I would let you all know what the problem was. The problem was found through elimination and ended when the electrician found a wire that fed the outside flood lights on the pool house were switched, black to white and white to black at the power source. This raised a red flag. He found that the wire leading to the flood lights had a nail driven through the wire making the black and ground wires come in contact. What the morons who wired the pool house do was use the white as the hot and the black and ground as nertral, which meant they were shared. Everything worked fine with the regular breaker but the gfi would not allow it to work with a shared ground and neutral (I believe someone mentioned this in the thread). I know all of the professionals know this stuff but I thought I would go into detail as this problem might help someone who doesn't know. I will say that this wasn't found fast. It took a very patient and professional electrician 6 hours to find as he had to go through the entire pool house wiring to find it. Everything in the pool house is safe now and on a gfi . Thanks to all of you who responded to my problem. I couldn't have fixed it anyway though. I would have NEVER found that problem. Thanks to Mike Brown at B&B electric in East Tennessee.

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Old 07-18-2008, 09:34 PM   #37
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40 amp double pole gfci problem


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Hey:
I thought I would let you all know what the problem was. The problem was found through elimination and ended when the electrician found a wire that fed the outside flood lights on the pool house were switched, black to white and white to black at the power source. This raised a red flag. He found that the wire leading to the flood lights had a nail driven through the wire making the black and ground wires come in contact. What the morons who wired the pool house do was use the white as the hot and the black and ground as nertral, which meant they were shared. Everything worked fine with the regular breaker but the gfi would not allow it to work with a shared ground and neutral (I believe someone mentioned this in the thread). I know all of the professionals know this stuff but I thought I would go into detail as this problem might help someone who doesn't know. I will say that this wasn't found fast. It took a very patient and professional electrician 6 hours to find as he had to go through the entire pool house wiring to find it. Everything in the pool house is safe now and on a gfi . Thanks to all of you who responded to my problem. I couldn't have fixed it anyway though. I would have NEVER found that problem. Thanks to Mike Brown at B&B electric in East Tennessee.


I thought you said any single pole breaker would trip the 40 amp gfci main? Correct information helps get a correct answer...
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Old 07-18-2008, 09:48 PM   #38
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40 amp double pole gfci problem


I did... but it did not matter, if as long as it was an Unforeseen problem as a nail through a wire in an enclosed wall causing a shared neutral and ground. The only way it was found was by disconnecting each individual circuit then wires to each location until it was finally found in the lights. As long as the gfi was hooked to all circuits it sensed the hidden problem. I am not an electrician, so if I failed to mention something in my thread I will, in the future, try to do better......
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Old 07-19-2008, 12:10 PM   #39
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40 amp double pole gfci problem


Chris-

Remember, there were two separate issues here. First, when he replaced the feeder breaker with the GFCI, the fact that he didn't move the feeder neutral from the buss to the breaker (an installation error) allowed the 240 loads to operate but resulted in a trip when any single phase load was switched on. Then in post #20, he fixed that problem but noted that the GF would still trip. He mentions that there was a nail making contact between black and ground in the lighting circuit and that those H/N wires were reversed. Unless I've mis-read, this means that neutral and ground are now touching at the pool panel which would represent yet another issue as far as the GFCI breaker would like to see things.

Rivers-

The interesting thing about ground faults is that they can exist for a variety of reasons and you may never see the issue with a standard thermal/magnetic circuit breaker as long as the magnitude of the fault is within allowances based on that breaker's particular trip curve. But these breakers are like Chicago cops-They'll act on the big ticket crimes going down but hey, why get out of the car to arrest a bum for peeing in the alley? The GFCI's on the other hand are like Robocop-they see things more black and white and they'll act on any minor infraction. When I finish doing a major wiring job using metal raceways, boxes and accessories, I often power the circuit up initially with a GFCI breaker to check for errors, pinched wires, etc. Kind of a quick way to check my work.

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