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Old 12-28-2016, 09:59 AM   #16
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Re: 4-way HELP


Also note the UP and DOWN means nothing on the four way setup. Either position can on or off depending on the other switches.

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Old 12-28-2016, 10:26 AM   #17
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Re: 4-way HELP


TB....

If my thinking/understanding/deductions are correct....and

all three switches in one position lights are on and each switch will turn off and switch #ONE MUST be in that position for any to work......

then I believe in switch #ONE (assumed to be the three way on the left in your drawing) you have your light feed (which I'm pretty certain is the red wire) attached to a travellor. It should be attached to your common terminal ....and the travellor attached to the common swapped over to the travelor terminal.



I think this explains your situation from what is known/reported.

Now.... how do you tell if they are connected wrong.

Looking closely at switch #one, one terminal screw is going to look different from the other two (often blackish or possibly goldish while the other two are likely silverish. That is your common screw. You can also put on glasses and the screw is likely marked "com" on the plastic.

See if that is not the case....

EDIT: This in essense is the same as Joed, while we were x-posting.
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Old 12-28-2016, 11:08 AM   #18
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Re: 4-way HELP


Quote:
Originally Posted by tb582 View Post
Is a bit more details on the switches I'll gather the which wires are connected to what screws in a bit.

All three light switches in the down/off position lights are on each of the three light switches will now turn the lights off when put up and on when down.

Switch one in the up position lights are off no other switch turns them on.



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3way and 4way switches need to be orientated (installed) in the position in which you want the toggle. There is no true, or marked 'ON' or 'OFF' position
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Old 12-28-2016, 01:48 PM   #19
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Re: 4-way HELP


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Originally Posted by KPDMinc View Post
3way and 4way switches need to be orientated (installed) in the position in which you want the toggle. There is no true, or marked 'ON' or 'OFF' position
Want to explain why you say this? If all three are up and the light is on, flipping one switch will turn the light off and still leave two switches in the On position. What you propose is a complete waste of time.
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Old 12-28-2016, 01:51 PM   #20
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Re: 4-way HELP


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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Want to explain why you say this? If all three are up and the light is on, flipping one switch will turn the light off and still leave two switches in the On position. What you propose is a complete waste of time.
Based on a previous quote that I was responding to, the OP mentioned the switches being in the 'ON and 'OFF' position. I was clarifying that there are no true ON or OFF markings on these types of switches.

...and for those OCD people out there, the switches CAN be installed so they are all in the DOWN position when off. Not saying this is how I would do them, maybe on an initial install perhaps.

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Old 12-28-2016, 02:46 PM   #21
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Re: 4-way HELP


But once any switch is turned to the opposite position the time was wasted.
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Old 12-28-2016, 04:01 PM   #22
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Re: 4-way HELP


I guess we could say a switch in a three-way switch circuit is codependent its state depends on another switch or switches in the circuit.
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Old 12-28-2016, 04:27 PM   #23
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Re: 4-way HELP


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Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
But once any switch is turned to the opposite position the time was wasted.
you've wasted more time arguing about the switch position than the actual labor time it would have taken a union electrician to install them. just sayin. some people like what their end result is.
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Old 12-28-2016, 05:10 PM   #24
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Re: 4-way HELP


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Port View Post
Want to explain why you say this? If all three are up and the light is on, flipping one switch will turn the light off and still leave two switches in the On position. What you propose is a complete waste of time.
Not a complete waste of time. I have a three way setup where I enter a basement with a bedroom and turn on/up the light at the top of the stairs. The second three way is beside the bedroom door. I have them oriented so that up entering the basement turns it on and then down entering the bedroom turns it off. Works in reverse also. If someone comes down the basement while I am in bed that messes it up but I just switch the offending switch to get it back in sync.
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Old 12-28-2016, 06:15 PM   #25
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Re: 4-way HELP


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@FrodoOne That was not the op that responded.

One of his three ways is definitely wrong. They both should be wired the same. The position of the common may not be as pictured since different manufactures sometimes put them in different positions. You need to make sure the red wire is on the black screw. The black screw is the common no matter what position it is.

Oops. Sorry KPDMinc

While "The position of the common may not be as pictured since different manufactures sometimes put them in different positions.", if the switches are of similar manufacture, the Red and Black on switch Three (on the Right) are reversed to that which they should be.

With multi-way (multi-point) switching there can be no defined ON or OFF positions.
However, it is quite possible to set the "Base" arrangement so the the light is OFF when all switches are in whatever one defines as the OFF position - which is the way I like to have it.

If this is done with an odd number of switches (such as here), it then turns out that the light is ON when all switches are in the ON position.

Last edited by FrodoOne; 12-28-2016 at 06:31 PM.
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Old 12-28-2016, 06:48 PM   #26
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Re: 4-way HELP


Quote:
if the switches are of similar manufacture, the Red and Black on switch Three (on the Right) are reversed to that which they should be.
That is partly true and I pointed that out back in post #10 that the two switches were not wired the same and they should be. It could be the left one that is wrong. We need to know for sure which screw is the common to know which one is wrong.
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Old 12-29-2016, 10:06 AM   #27
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Re: 4-way HELP


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TB....

If my thinking/understanding/deductions are correct....and

all three switches in one position lights are on and each switch will turn off and switch #ONE MUST be in that position for any to work......

then I believe in switch #ONE
(assumed to be the three way on the left in your drawing) you have your light feed (which I'm pretty certain is the red wire) attached to a travellor. It should be attached to your common terminal ....and the travellor attached to the common swapped over to the travelor terminal.



I think this explains your situation from what is known/reported.

Now.... how do you tell if they are connected wrong.

Looking closely at switch #one, one terminal screw is going to look different from the other two (often blackish or possibly goldish while the other two are likely silverish. That is your common screw. You can also put on glasses and the screw is likely marked "com" on the plastic.

See if that is not the case....

EDIT: This in essense is the same as Joed, while we were x-posting.
Joed..... Is my thinking wrong..... If the above facts are true (as OP stated) does not it have to be switch#1. ?????

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Old 12-29-2016, 01:52 PM   #28
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Re: 4-way HELP


Quote:
Originally Posted by MTN REMODEL LLC View Post
TB....

If my thinking/understanding/deductions are correct....and

all three switches in one position lights are on and each switch will turn off and switch #ONE MUST be in that position for any to work......

then I believe in switch #ONE (assumed to be the three way on the left in your drawing) you have your light feed (which I'm pretty certain is the red wire) attached to a travellor. It should be attached to your common terminal ....and the travellor attached to the common swapped over to the travelor terminal.



I think this explains your situation from what is known/reported.

Now.... how do you tell if they are connected wrong.

Looking closely at switch #one, one terminal screw is going to look different from the other two (often blackish or possibly goldish while the other two are likely silverish. That is your common screw. You can also put on glasses and the screw is likely marked "com" on the plastic.

See if that is not the case....

EDIT: This in essense is the same as Joed, while we were x-posting.


Sorry for the delay confirmed that the black is tied into a black screw the other two are tied into gold/silver-ish screws.



If I'm reading your post right I should switch the red and the black wires...


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Old 12-29-2016, 01:57 PM   #29
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Re: 4-way HELP


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Originally Posted by tb582 View Post
Sorry for the delay confirmed that the black is tied into a black screw the other two are tied into gold/silver

If I'm reading your post right I should switch the red and the black wires...


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Made that change now switch wanted to control the lights as expected switch three does nothing assuming that's because the wires are not in the same configuration so they should be in the same configuration as switch one?



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Old 12-29-2016, 02:20 PM   #30
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Re: 4-way HELP


TB.....Are yu saying that switch three is now acting as switch one did before.... you say it does nothing.... will it not turn off the lights when they are on...???

I can not confirm exactly what you mean or confirm with certainity that your suggested change is what you need to make... but very likely/possibly that is exactly what you want to do.....

But if that is the case, you never tested, or never told us, that switch three also had to be in a certain position for the lights to be on..... had you tested for that..??? but, logically you may not have realized that. as if switch one had to be in only one position for the lights to be on, then you could only test to see if switch three will switch off....which it would.

So yes.... I think you want your red at switch three on it;s common terminal.

Good luck

(The reason we can't be certain, as logically we are estimating the liklyhood of your wiring, without the ability to actaaully test for voltages, and test continuities /runs of your wireing. ) I think you had two problems, one of which did not show up in your initial testing procedure.

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