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Old 07-17-2008, 09:04 AM   #16
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Is 30A sub-panel enough?


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Probably, but sounds like you have it under control...
Thanks for the help...Sometimes (but not often) my brain is faster than my typing and I think I've explained myself only to realize later the important stuff I left out

If you don't mind, as a guy that's doing this everyday (I haven't bought copper in 5 years), assuming a 200' run of UF, what would I expect to pay ballpark for the wire for a 30A vs a 60A service?

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Old 07-17-2008, 04:41 PM   #17
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Is 30A sub-panel enough?


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Thanks for the help...Sometimes (but not often) my brain is faster than my typing and I think I've explained myself only to realize later the important stuff I left out

If you don't mind, as a guy that's doing this everyday (I haven't bought copper in 5 years), assuming a 200' run of UF, what would I expect to pay ballpark for the wire for a 30A vs a 60A service?
To be honest, I dont and never would use UF, except for a few situations, but never as a feeder, copper is just to expensive, It will be MUCH cheaper to use aluminum and conduit... but thats just me.
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Old 07-17-2008, 05:23 PM   #18
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Is 30A sub-panel enough?


Well, I will certainly consider that then...Like I said, I read a blurb somewhere while researching this, that Al is a bad idea for a wet application. While I guess not technically wet, it is in a high humidity area, being lugged to the sub-panel in a 4x10 shed 30' out in a lake.

But my sister owns a pump/pipe company, so PVC would be cheap. Assuming that sch40/80 water pipe is the same as sch40/80 conduit.

Is there a particular insulation/bundled cable type to consider for this application or just go with individually insulated conductors?
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Old 07-17-2008, 06:24 PM   #19
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Is 30A sub-panel enough?


Without a copy of your local code guidelines for the electrical installation for private dock/boat house it is hard to answer your questions. Is this on your private water or public?

Aluminum feeders are not allowed in my area...no aluminum period. All wiring (usually thwn) must be in conduit preferably PVC. All conductors and equipment ground wires must be insulated. GEC can occupy the same raceway and can be bare.. You also need a bond wire (probably #8 ) to bond all metal (handrails,ladders, structural metal etc) some places want this to connect all metal to the ground rod where your gec connects.

No... water (white) pvc won't be acceptable. You need electrical conduit (gray)
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Old 07-17-2008, 07:15 PM   #20
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Is 30A sub-panel enough?


Stubbie,

Thanks for the reply...It was your great picture that answered alot of my questions initially.

The lake is public. The land I'm crossing is controlled by the POCO as is all shoreline. However, they have no real directive and tell me to rely on local bldg codes as the lake spans four counties. I contacted a 'dock' electrician, and most of what I've gleaned is that the box is permittable on the structure. However, no real guidance on AL or CU, but I think for now I'm going to stick with CU. I used AL for my main service, used all the anti-oxident goop and such, but for this application, even though it would probably save me $$, I'll stick with copper.

As for 'all wiring must be in conduit', are you referring to the feeder to the sub that's underground? I was told that I could use UF-direct burial cable and only needed conduit at the crossing of a private road/driveway and on the risers in/out of the ground. This was also per the local electrician. I would then use conduit along the walkway up into the box, although I see plenty of next door neighbor docks with bare cable stapled along the gangways.
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Old 07-17-2008, 07:30 PM   #21
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Is 30A sub-panel enough?


Hi Robert

Dock wiring requirements vary I think more than anything I have experience with. Here (Missouri)(Kansas) UF is not allowed to a private dock as a feeder or anything. When we transition to the walkway we have to use liquidtight flexible conduit along the walkway then to rnmc (pvc) once past the walkway. This is due to lake level changes and movement. We can have no exposed wiring on the dock all must be in PVC. So it sounds like you can be different in that regard.
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Old 07-17-2008, 07:38 PM   #22
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Is 30A sub-panel enough?


Maybe the difference is that this is a hydroelectric lake and the levels are controlled within Plus/Minus 6 inches. All docks and walkways are stationary, so I don't think flex would be needed.

I think as always, the best bet is to get a hold of the building inspector. The only problem is that the county has one inspector (rural low population county) and it takes forever to get any answers. Nice guy but he's swamped. Last time I met him, I also learned he does mechanical in addition to all electrical inspections.
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Old 07-17-2008, 07:47 PM   #23
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Is 30A sub-panel enough?


That's cool and sounds like you have done your homework. Have you purchased your sub-panel yet? Only ask because the separation of neutral and ground varies sometimes depending on the panel. You will also need a main breaker in it or backfed breaker with holddown. As for 30 amps that is fine but i'm not sure you can get a 30 amp panel that will fit the bill for a 120/240 feeder. Most 60 and 70 are main lug only 2 to 4 spaces so you may have to go up to a 100 amp panel in order to get a main.
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Old 07-17-2008, 08:09 PM   #24
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Is 30A sub-panel enough?


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That's cool and sounds like you have done your homework. Have you purchased your sub-panel yet? Only ask because the separation of neutral and ground varies sometimes depending on the panel. You will also need a main breaker in it or backfed breaker with holddown. As for 30 amps that is fine but i'm not sure you can get a 30 amp panel that will fit the bill for a 120/240 feeder. Most 60 and 70 are main lug only 2 to 4 spaces so you may have to go up to a 100 amp panel in order to get a main.
N'ah, I haven't purchased anything yet. The dock construction permit takes 60 days to approve (going on day 14), so I have some time. I'm just doing all the preliminary homework.

No biggee if I have to go to a 100A panel as the panel costs aren't that bad. It's the copper costs that I'm worried about and is why I'm even considering on just running a 30A feeder. I won't need any shore connection (small pontoon and ski boat), and I can live with using the lifts singularly. That leaves an outlet and light in the shed, and maybe a couple of floods.

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