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-   -   30 amp GFCI wall outlet? (http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/30-amp-gfci-wall-outlet-79509/)

CZ DIY 08-23-2010 09:09 PM

30 amp GFCI wall outlet?
 
The enclosed shower unit I'm installing in my bathroom has a built-in steamer. The steamer motor is rated as follows:

Steam Generator: 3000W/110V/60Hz/27.3A

I ran 12 awg romex from my subpanel to the bathroom for this. The outlet for this will be behind the enclosed shower, on the wall. And I'll be looking for a 30 amp single pole breaker.

1) Do you guys recommend GFCI for both breaker and outlet?

2) I'm having trouble locating a 30 amp outlet that will fit in my existing, normal sized wall outlet. Any suggestions?

3) Is one outlet as good as the next, if all specs are identical?

Scuba_Dave 08-23-2010 09:15 PM

30a requires #10 wire

huck 08-23-2010 09:27 PM

Yeah, what Scuba Dave said.

Speedy Petey 08-23-2010 09:28 PM

A 3000 watt unit rated for 120v is absolutely dumb.

- You need #10 wire. DO NOT use the #12 you ran.
- You need a 30A single pole GFI breaker. GOOD LUCK finding that. :whistling2: (a 30A GFI receptacle does not exist)
- You must either use a 30A receptacle and cord, or better yet hard wire it with a disconnect at the unit.

If it were me I would return this junk and get a better unit. :thumbsup:

CZ DIY 08-24-2010 07:02 AM

Frack. This website said it was okay to use 12 awg.

http://activerain.com/blogsview/6775...30-amp-breaker-

It's already ran up to the 2nd story bathroom and the drywalling is done & painted.

TimPa 08-24-2010 07:09 AM

"The outlet for this will be behind the enclosed shower, on the wall."

does this mean no access to it? if so, how will it be reset should it trip? or be tested? hardwire it from a gfci cb.

Scuba_Dave 08-24-2010 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CZ DIY (Post 490334)
Frack. This website said it was okay to use 12 awg.

http://activerain.com/blogsview/6775...30-amp-breaker-

It's already ran up to the 2nd story bathroom and the drywalling is done & painted.

For certain MOTOR connections a higher breaker can be used depending upon the name plate

But not for your use

That info is from a BLOG
And it looks like the author DELETED other peoples posts
There was enough left to cast serious doubt on using 12g for a 30a load

frenchelectrican 08-24-2010 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CZ DIY (Post 490334)
Frack. This website said it was okay to use 12 awg.

http://activerain.com/blogsview/6775...30-amp-breaker-

It's already ran up to the 2nd story bathroom and the drywalling is done & painted.

First thing first I am sorry what you did is complety wrong on this set up the conductor size you did install is way too light for this load to handle due you mention 27 amp load you DEFENTLY need 6.0mm˛ { #10 AWG } conductors

And Bon Chance to find a single pole 30 A RCD { GFCI } breaker there are around but you will not find them in big box store unless you order them or go to electrical supply centre that will cost a bit of Euros { Dollars for North Americian }

I will NEVER follow what the bloggers say it is ok to use 4.0mm˛ { #12 AWG } with that much a load on it That is asking for trouble right there.

The other thing you will need access panel to get into the steam generator which I know you will do it from time to time to clean out gunk etc.

Dave., Most steam generator which I ran into most are just like souped up water heater but very little water in the tank.

Only way I can verify if it have motor in there or not if the OP mention what brand name the unit itself.

Merci.
Marc

Scuba_Dave 08-24-2010 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frenchelectrican (Post 490553)
Dave., Most steam generator which I ran into most are just like souped up water heater but very little water in the tank.

Only way I can verify if it have motor in there or not if the OP mention what brand name the unit itself.

Merci.
Marc

Yup, my steam generator I ran #8 wire for a 30a load - 240v
No motor....I have a Kohler

zpm 08-24-2010 01:38 PM

Based on the OP's description, this might be a Rainforest steam shower unit. Appears to be targeted for European market. It looks really good, but the instructions I found leave much to be desired. I'd be sure this thing is UL listed. You're mixing water and electricity ... better safe than sorry.

Tech specs, matches the OP's info about the steamer unit:
http://www.mybath.biz/stores/6/61760...og/MB160_2.pdf
Note: Option for MP3/MP4 compatibility!

Installation instructions.
http://www.mybath.biz/stores/6/617602/catalog/MB160.pdf


The electrical preparation instructions consist of
Quote:

Also, fit two number IP56 rated electrical sockets. Figure 1: (1 for the two water pumps 1460W, 1 for the heater pump 1500W). 110V/60Hz/54.2A (220V/50Hz/27.1A).
IP56 is an IEC code for (5) "dust protected" and (6) "powerful jetting water, any direction". Yeah, I had to look that up.

My favorite:
Quote:

Step 18: Connect the electromagnetism value, audio & radio, and TV power.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy Petey (Post 490244)
You need a 30A single pole GFI breaker. GOOD LUCK finding that.

QO130GFI. THQL1130GFP. Should I google it for you?:jester:

frenchelectrican 08-24-2010 01:49 PM

ZPM.,

Let me speak of my behaf and Speedy's as well due we are electrician by trade and we know what is common and what not.

All it depending on what brand name in OP's panel if he have SqD or CH[ CulterHammer ] Or GE or Seamens they are not too bad but if very old or out of production items like FPE or other oddball then it will be very long shot to ever find one like that.

And 30 amp single pole RCD { GFCI } is not super common item just walk in any big box store and look at the shelf I know 15 and 20 amp single pole RCD is common but very rare to see single pole 30 amp RCD but two pole verison yeah it somehow common but you will not like the cost of 30 amp SP verison even DP verison.

And with that steam generator what ZPM gave the link if that the case the OP will have serious issue allready there due it will reqired MWBC for it that will get very tricky to meet the code requirement and it will denfity need two pole breaker to work on this one.

Merci.
Marc

Speedy Petey 08-24-2010 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zpm (Post 490564)
QO130GFI. THQL1130GFP. Should I google it for you?:jester:

Gee thanks. :icon_rolleyes:

I never said it didn't exist. I said good luck finding it. :whistling2:

CZ DIY 08-24-2010 08:32 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Thanks, everyone. Yes, it is the same unit you posted directions to.
The Rainforest model in the user manual posted.

I got a reply from the customer care people from one of the retailers.

Quote:

Hello,

We would suggest using the same size wire as the cables coming from the shower. We believe these should be 10 or 12 AWG for your unit.
The unit can be pulled away from the wall, for access to the back panel.

I took some pictures of the "steam generator"

The cable is labeled:

Quote:

4400/200321276 SHUN DE DA DU CABLE RVV 3X4MM (cubed) 300/500V HUANG DU

frenchelectrican 08-24-2010 08:41 PM

Ok That is not a North Americain verison at all due I do not see the UL label.

Second thing it say 110 Volts 50 HZ

The reason why I am supecting something is not right due the manufacter just put a second sticker over the oringal one { the oringal one is rated for 220 ~ 240 volts 50/60 HZ }

The cord size you mention 4mm˛ that is the same size as # 12 AWG and IMO that is too small for this useage.

I do not know why the manufacter suggest both gauge size and it will NOT work with 30 amp load like that fashion!

and The Brown is hot conductor while Bleu is netural and green with yellow stripe is ground { Earth }

Call back and get the athorization to change the cord to use the 6.0mm˛ { 10 AWG }

Merci.
Marc

codeone 08-24-2010 08:49 PM

Just a thought.

This unit looks like an untested unit for the US and would not be allowed to be used in most jurisdictions here. Are you having the work permitted and inspected? With the labeling doubled like it is I dont think I would personally use it.

Just my opinion though.


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