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Old 02-10-2012, 08:28 AM   #1
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3 Wire Stove Power


Can someone please explain the wiring on a 3 wire power feed for an electric range in an older 1980's home? I am doing a kitchen remodel and need to replace the 3 wire receptacle. It looks like the previous owner took a sledgehammer to the thing!

I realize that modern homes have a 4 wire setup. It looks like I have 2 hot wires and a ground. Is this correct for a 3 wire setup?

Thanks,
Mike

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Old 02-10-2012, 08:38 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey11
Can someone please explain the wiring on a 3 wire power feed for an electric range in an older 1980's home? I am doing a kitchen remodel and need to replace the 3 wire receptacle. It looks like the previous owner took a sledgehammer to the thing!

I realize that modern homes have a 4 wire setup. It looks like I have 2 hot wires and a ground. Is this correct for a 3 wire setup?

Thanks,
Mike
What kinda wire is there? Nm or Se, A picture would help. And what are the specs of the new range? Does it need a neutral?

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Old 02-10-2012, 10:33 AM   #3
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3 Wire Stove Power


Oops...

Last edited by Bondo; 02-10-2012 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 02-10-2012, 07:49 PM   #4
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3 Wire Stove Power


If it was a three wire set up,
two hots !
with out a neutral !
then it was a 220/240v stove.

If your new stove is different,
I. E. 120V,
then you will need to provide a neutral line !
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmxtothemax View Post
If it was a three wire set up,
two hots !
with out a neutral !
then it was a 220/240v stove.

If your new stove is different,
I. E. 120V,
then you will need to provide a neutral line !
Not in an older home. Older construction (80's and earlier) allowed the use of three insulated conductors with the chassis bonded to the grounded conductor. It is legal to continue to use this setup as long as the circuit was legal when installed. The grounded conductor must be insulated, though; it is a neutral that doubles as a bonding conductor, not a ground that doubles as a neutral.
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:11 AM   #6
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3 Wire Stove Power


In order for the existing branch circuit wiring to be used it must be existing and meet the following

NEC 250.140 Frames of Ranges and Clothes Dryers. Frames
of electric ranges, wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted
cooking units, clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes
that are part of the circuit for these appliances shall be
connected to the equipment grounding conductor in the
manner specified by 250.134 or 250.138.
Exception: For existing branch-circuit installations only
where an equipment grounding conductor is not present in
the outlet or junction box, the frames of electric ranges,
wall-mounted ovens, counter-mounted cooking units,
clothes dryers, and outlet or junction boxes that are part of
the circuit for these appliances shall be permitted to be
connected to the grounded circuit conductor if all the following
conditions are met.
(1) The supply circuit is 120/240-volt, single-phase, 3-wire;
or 208Y/120-volt derived from a 3-phase, 4-wire, wye connected
system.
(2) The grounded conductor is not smaller than 10 AWG
copper or 8 AWG aluminum.
(3) The grounded conductor is insulated, or the grounded
conductor is uninsulated and part of a Type SE service entrance
cable and the branch circuit originates at the
service equipment.
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Old 02-11-2012, 12:34 AM   #7
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Ok, now I am really confused. The existing copper cable has a ground wire, black wire, and red wire. It is on a 220v circuit, 50a breaker for an electric range that uses a 3 prong plug. This is in an early 1980's house.

Last edited by Mickey11; 02-11-2012 at 12:38 AM.
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey11 View Post
Ok, now I am really confused. The existing copper cable has a ground wire, black wire, and red wire. It is on a 220v circuit, 50a breaker for an electric range that uses a 3 prong plug. This is in an early 1980's house.
No need to be confused.

Poster dude #4 described your setup in the first part of his post. You have a straight 240 volt range and you can simply change your 3 prong receptacle. Most of the newer stoves need a neutral (4th wire) to supply 120 volts for running the light and all of the electronic crapola.

Last edited by zappa; 02-11-2012 at 06:22 AM.
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:34 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey11 View Post
Can someone please explain the wiring on a 3 wire power feed for an electric range in an older 1980's home? I am doing a kitchen remodel and need to replace the 3 wire receptacle. It looks like the previous owner took a sledgehammer to the thing!

I realize that modern homes have a 4 wire setup. It looks like I have 2 hot wires and a ground. Is this correct for a 3 wire setup?

Thanks,
Mike
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmxtothemax View Post
If it was a three wire set up,
two hots !
with out a neutral !
then it was a 220/240v stove.

If your new stove is different,
I. E. 120V,
then you will need to provide a neutral line !
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey11 View Post
Ok, now I am really confused. The existing copper cable has a ground wire, black wire, and red wire. It is on a 220v circuit, 50a breaker for an electric range that uses a 3 prong plug. This is in an early 1980's house.

What you have is a non-grounding outlet, a NEMA 10-50R. There are 2 hots and a neutral conductor in there. Quite common in houses built in the 1980's.

Most likely, it's a piece of SE cable, in which the so-called ground is actually a neutral conductor consisting of multiple concentric strands that are wrapped around the hot conductors, and originate within a service panel.

Perfectly legal to keep in service. If the OP is buying a new range, he will have to install a 3-wire cord on it, and ensure the bonding strap is in place.
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:46 AM   #10
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Thanks to all! It now makes sense and I will be sure that our new range that the "boss" picks out will accept a 3 wire cord.

Thanks again,
Mike
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Old 02-11-2012, 03:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zappa View Post
You have a straight 240 volt range and you can simply change your 3 prong receptacle. Most of the newer stoves need a neutral (4th wire) to supply 120 volts for running the light and all of the electronic crapola.
No, he has a 120/240V range fed by an ungrounded 3-wire receptacle with two hots and a neutral. The chassis of the range is bonded to the neutral, which is permitted for old installations.
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Old 02-11-2012, 08:38 PM   #12
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Why was the recepticule changed ?
Why was a different recepticule used ?
Why wasnt it tested when installed ?
I understand it is the same stove ?
What gives ?
something doesnt add up here !
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Old 02-11-2012, 10:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmxtothemax View Post
Why was the recepticule changed ?
Apparently he has to change it because the existing one is damaged.
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:09 AM   #14
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That makes sense !
But why did they replace a 4 pin with a 3 pin ?
Some mis understanding perhaps, about what the stove needs ?
This is why they need to check !
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Old 02-12-2012, 05:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmxtothemax View Post
That makes sense !
But why did they replace a 4 pin with a 3 pin ?
Some mis understanding perhaps, about what the stove needs ?
This is why they need to check !
Hi DMX, there are 2 similar threads. This one is just replacing a damaged receptacle. The other thread "Range Outlet Wired Wrong" is the accidental 4 to 3 pin conversion.

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