Go Back   DIY Chatroom Home Improvement Forum > Home Improvement > Electrical

CLICK HERE AND JOIN OUR COMMUNITY TODAY...IT'S FREE!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 07-16-2008, 10:15 PM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Apple Valley, MN, USA
Posts: 996
Send a message via AIM to theatretch85
Share |
Default

3 Wire 220 Volt Outlet


I feel kinda stupid asking this question, but the labeling on the outlet threw me for a loop. Its a 50 Amp 3 wire plug, the particular one I have is the Pass and Seymour 3890-CC6. This will be wired up for a temporary use on a stove that I currently do not have access to. Normally i'd wire it up with Red Black and Green since a 240volt 3 wire plug would have a ground and no neutral. I don't know if the stove has any 120volt parts on it (I am going to assume not). The back of the outlet marks the center pin as "white". I will be wiring this up with a 3 wire cable into a sub panel that has the neutral and ground separated on it, and when I do get to the point of using this next weekend I could change the bus bar the center pin connects to pretty easily. I would think that if the stove does not have any 120volt parts, that center pin should be Ground, not Neutral.

One thing I just thought of, with the center pin being flat (not U or round shaped) it should be connected to the neutral bus verses the ground bus. Would that make sense?

Below is an image of the outlet I am working with:

Attached Images
 


Last edited by theatretch85; 07-16-2008 at 10:17 PM.
theatretch85 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2008, 11:12 PM   #2
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,875
Default

3 Wire 220 Volt Outlet


That is a nema 10-50R 3 wire range receptacle. Two hots and neutral. If the stove is 240 only then you should be using a 6-50R. but to answer your question 3 wire range with a neutral is only allowed for existing permanent installations. Otherwise 4 wire supply is required.

That receptacle will work as you want with 240 volts only by using the ground connected to the neutral terminal (W). However this is not the intent for that receptacle.

Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2008, 11:26 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Apple Valley, MN, USA
Posts: 996
Send a message via AIM to theatretch85
Default

3 Wire 220 Volt Outlet


I understand the whole reason behind the 4 wire and that it is code in the 2008 book. This is for a temporary use of a stove for 1 or 2 days. Big wedding going on at a buddies farm house, and temporarily tapping power for several hot plates, this stove, some stage lighting and power for sound. Thankfully the heat items (hot plates and stove) won't be on at the same time the bands will be playing and the stage lighting being on.

The way I understood it, 3 wire range outlets were wired up with a ground, not a neutral. But thinking about how a 4 wire plug is wired, the center flat pin is the neutral, and the U shaped or rounded pin is the ground. So my guess with this outlet would be that since the center pin is flat, it should be wired to the neutral (as the outlet is labeled) and if it had a U shaped pin it would be ground. So the only question that I think I will need to answer is if the cord on the stove is original or not.
theatretch85 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2008, 11:42 PM   #4
UAW SKILLED TRADES
 
Stubbie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Kansas
Posts: 4,875
Default

3 Wire 220 Volt Outlet


Quote:
The way I understood it, 3 wire range outlets were wired up with a ground, not a neutral. But thinking about how a 4 wire plug is wired, the center flat pin is the neutral, and the U shaped or rounded pin is the ground. So my guess with this outlet would be that since the center pin is flat, it should be wired to the neutral (as the outlet is labeled) and if it had a U shaped pin it would be ground. So the only question that I think I will need to answer is if the cord on the stove is original or not.
You would not be alone in thinking it was a ground. However 3 wire ranges were 120/240 so needed as you know a neutral. In application the neutral was bonded to ground (metal frame) at the range terminal block so the neutral played double duty as ground and neutral. This configuration has been documented to several electrocutions over the years and now is no longer allowed but existing ones are out there by the 100's of thousands there fore the exemption but no more are to be allowed.
Stubbie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2008, 02:45 AM   #5
" Euro " electrician
 
frenchelectrican's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: WI & France { in France for now }
Posts: 5,369
Default

3 Wire 220 Volt Outlet


Quote:
Originally Posted by theatretch85 View Post
The way I understood it, 3 wire range outlets were wired up with a ground, not a neutral. But thinking about how a 4 wire plug is wired, the center flat pin is the neutral, and the U shaped or rounded pin is the ground. So my guess with this outlet would be that since the center pin is flat, it should be wired to the neutral (as the outlet is labeled) and if it had a U shaped pin it would be ground. So the only question that I think I will need to answer is if the cord on the stove is original or not.
The netual wire on the range is double duty on three wire verison it used for both netural and ground as you can see if you look at the termail block on back of the range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubbie View Post
You would not be alone in thinking it was a ground. However 3 wire ranges were 120/240 so needed as you know a neutral. In application the neutral was bonded to ground (metal frame) at the range terminal block so the neutral played double duty as ground and neutral. This configuration has been documented to several electrocutions over the years and now is no longer allowed but existing ones are out there by the 100's of thousands there fore the exemption but no more are to be allowed.
Yep right on the target and myself I will not install the three wire range receptale for tempory useage heck no way.

Merci,Marc
frenchelectrican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2008, 01:35 PM   #6
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Apple Valley, MN, USA
Posts: 996
Send a message via AIM to theatretch85
Default

3 Wire 220 Volt Outlet


Just thought i'd post back, this particular application the stove was a 120/240 so the center pin is/was a neutral.

theatretch85 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aluminum wire? Which outlet to use? papashaq Electrical 6 08-27-2007 05:36 PM
HELP I need to wire a switch to an outlet to hook up my garbage disposal r8drman69 Electrical 8 06-05-2007 10:18 PM
Can I Wire a range hood to an exhisting outlet? skellies Electrical 2 05-09-2006 04:06 PM
European 220V outlet "Schuko" estophile Electrical 6 08-27-2005 08:45 AM
trying to wire a light and light switch off of an outlet imphishy Electrical 3 03-16-2005 09:04 PM




Top of Page | View New Posts

Copyright © 2003-2014 Escalate Media. All Rights Reserved.